This is the Message Centre for Effers;England.

Eclipse

Post 1

Effers;England.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IlHRSpFGtQk

"That's one small step for man and one giant leap for mankind", and back down to Earth again, as was Neil always.

Thanks Mrs Smith for forcing me awake to watch.

smiley - moon


Eclipse

Post 2

anhaga

As you p`robably know, Effers, I'm raising a glass to his memory just now. He was an exceptional man of exceptional humility. Such are few and far between, and his achievement should have been surpassed on Mars long ago. My own little country's government seems committed to spend ever increasing billions on stealth fighter planes whose only apparent possible use is aggressive rather than defensive, i.e. bombing brown people with impunity. Would that money not be better spent inspiring joyous awe at the human exploratory spirit rather than inspiring shock and awe and humiliation in our fellow humans?


Eclipse

Post 3

Elektragheorgheni -Please read 'The Post'

Amen to that Anhaga. Effers thanks for mentioning Neil Armstrong's passing. He was definately had the right stuff and did not capitalize on his fame. smiley - candlesmiley - rosesmiley - candle


Eclipse

Post 4

Effers;England.


Thanks both.

Yes I'm trying to come to terms with the complexity of its meaning for our psyches. Those aspects are as important as the fact and literalism of the great desire for exploring space. I'm trying to be true to my own cultural perception, which I think will have a slightly different colour to folk in North America.

We are human and come from Earth. It's our Mother if you will. We may cut the apron strings which is good in one way...but we mustn't forget our roots and get too caught up in the 'shock and awe'..because really IMO that 'idea' is just the other side of the same coin..and has a very 'masculine' colour too it. Provided the same ingenuity and force of will to address problems here on earth is the ultimate short term legacy, I'm not worried.

Maybe its also a wariness, again because of my cultural background, with this idea of Empire building. Remember it was the stars and stripes Neil pinned to the moon..although to his credit he always felt that to be a mistake.

It will be very easy for politicians, mostly men, of power to manipulate this moment.

It's always good to ground oneself as well as fly..(I have to be on the watch for this personally because of my tendency to 'visions' and 'bigness', a common struggle for bipolars...I mean when I recently had that operation and nearly died, I was flying around the world to different countries..it was a relief to come home again.

I always am amused at the idea of travelling via the moon being one way to reach the great Pacific ocean.

That Floyd song can be interpreted in so many ways..and is not simple, at least to me, whatever the writer singer may have simplistically said..and I'm fed up with people suggesting darkness is somehow bad. To be literal for a moment isn't dark matter rather important...but in myth the dark is associated with the 'feminine' as is the moon...We need more than just the blinding clear light of Reason of the god Apollo

(A bit of a meander in this post

smiley - biggrin)


Eclipse

Post 5

Effers;England.


Forgot to say, or just remembered rather, that I always end up realising that the most important things are full of contradiction and paradox...(Or maybe that's just me being a bit 'British' smiley - winkeye)

Seriously, I think Armstrong probably realised that. It was nice that he periodically visited small things here...like the small Scottish town where he received the only 'Freeman' they ever gave out, and went to the town hall in a cart pulled by two big grey horses, and then onto the little church by car. There is one photo commemorating the event in the town hall, the one of Aldrin with his reflection in the visor.

He also visited Cranfield University...place for aeronautical engineering.


Eclipse

Post 6

anhaga

I have a very nice neighbour who I now have trouble being around. She's one of the people who says things like "The Space Program is a waste of money. They should spend the money on earth helping people in need."

I find such colossal ignorance unfathomable. Does she really believe that the world's space programs actually consist of a bunch of doctors, diplomats, aid workers, etc. taking unpaid leave from their helping professions in order to build rocket ships from donated materials which have required no research to develop? Do they really believe that these unpaid workers then stuff the rocket ships with taxpayers' cash and then launch the whole lot into the sun?

Or does she simply not know or care des`pite her strongly held and vocally ex`pressed stu`pid o`pinion?

I find the ignorance of the first positively anti-social and the indifference implied in the second to also be `positively anti-social.

Here's a thumbnail sketch of reality:

s`pace `programs s`pend every `penny to people here on earth, `peo`ple with jobs, `peo`ple building things, discovering things, using their wages to feed their families, to donate to charities, to `pay taxes, to invest in businesses and further research, to do fundamental research which has in the `past led to almost everything we take for granted in our modern world from weather re`ports, to medical care, to smart `phones to knowledge of climate change.

For all of it's Cold War jingoistic roots, if there had been no Space Race, our technology would likely be little advanced over that depicted in Steinbeck's "The Grapes of Wrath".

Is that what my neighbour would `prefer, a world of migratory Okies scrambling to make enough money for a dinner of fried mush?

If every `penny of S`pace science money were diverted to development aid I'd guess that the difference to the disadvantaged of the world would be undetectable.

On the other hand, imagine what a world we would have if the world's nations all diverted as little as 1% of their military spending and divided it equally between development aid and scientific research, including space research. I would wager that not only would every child go to bed with a full tummy, but we'd see human footprints on Mars within a decade.

I seriously have trouble facing my neighbour now. Is it worth trying to educate someone with such an ignorant, foundationless and yet strongly held opinion? Or should I just smile and nod and `pretend to get along?


Eclipse

Post 7

You can call me TC

I should just agree to differ with her, anhaga, and change the subject. Unless you want to repeat all the above to her face, which she might not quite take the right way.

It's not worth falling out with your neighbours, however unfounded their opinions are.

Maybe you can get her to revise her opinion by feeding her small portions of your post and giving her time to digest each one.


Eclipse

Post 8

Effers;England.


Blimey just read this anhaga. smiley - laugh Have you turned into Hoovooloo? smiley - winkeye Yeah yeah I know the very big is your big thing. And you know I'm more 'quantum' and there's as yet no grand unified theory..(I hope there ain't..and don't think there will be as a matter of fact.) (This is me being playful here..of course I know there is more to your thing than just being very big..but you got me nervous now smiley - laugh

Well I'd say it all depends on the quality and depth of your relationship with the person..that's generally what I tell myself, being prone to strong emotion, and tempted on occasion to let rip Peckham fashion, (or at least it has been Peckham fashion until the bloodless, tame, oh so nice and caring, effete, avert our eyes and you might all disappear and stop offending us types have started buying up places which loud mouths have left behind for the great Peckham in the Sky..yes that's where we go to die..so anyone reading this wanting to avoid me in eternity had better take note..) So yes, if it's a person very set in their beliefs, or very limited in their imagination or vision to look at things differently, it's best to just smile and nod...otherwise I'd probably lose my rag and give them a mouthful if it was to do with something I felt very strongly about. (My upstairs neighbours are born-agains..we smile and nod these days)

But if its a neighbour that you have a more in depth, interesting and mutually nourishing relationship with, it would be good to take a risk and do what TC suggested I think.


Eclipse

Post 9

anhaga

I expect I'll just ignore it. She's a person who acts proud of the fact that she grewup in the backwoods with no contact with larger society. It is often hard to have a conversation with her because she appears to have none of the bits of common knowledge most of our age have, and always ends up with "i grew up in Yellowknife ..." which is, of course denigrating that whole city.

Imagine having a casual conversation with 50 something person who had never heard the Beatles or who didn't have some sort of concept of Thatcher or . ..

Often the only points of common ground are literary works, and her range there has seemed fairly limited.

And, worst of all, she says she tried it once and doesn't like Scotch. Honestly! That's like having a taste of fried bait and proudly announcing that you don't like *any* seafood!

BTW: today I ordered "Painting Apollo" by fourth man on the Moon, Alan Bean. He retired from NASA to devote himself to painting because, as he said, no other artist had ever been to another world.smiley - smiley


Eclipse

Post 10

Effers;England.


That's good. And that person does sound a bit tricky to have a conversation with..especially to do with a subject so dear to your heart.

I've ordered the book of photographs to accompany, the Hayward show, 'Full Moon' of 1999, which I mentioned to you. I was so desirous of buying that book at the time but couldn't afford the £200 or so it cost. They have an 'as good as new' copy on Amazon for £50. I've ordered it. I simply can't wait..those photographs made such a deep effect on me.

Something to amuse you. I fished out my old English composition book from the Grammar. I've mentioned before my excellent English teacher, Miss Gray. In '71 she got us writing a piece called, 'Myself in twenty years time.'. Apparently I've married a farmer, though I hoped I'd marry a footballer...but the best bit, '..I have just finished learning how to control a rocket that is in orbit, stage 2. Most people learn these days because nuclear war will probably break out at any time and we must be ready to evacuate....'

Priceless.

But it shows a little of both the optimism for getting into space and the fear of nuclear war at that time.


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