h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Peter,
See Front Page. I have added another post as it should not have gone on in its present form.
Frank.

Hi Frank

First let me thank you for the great tribute and compliment you paid me in another thread. It was most kind and generous of you and it left me quite speechless.

I have read your sensible addendum. I am of Italian descent but I know that I would have raised the same objections had this been said about the British Navy, or even the Japanese one for that matter.

I had good cause as a lad to hate the Nazis, but I would never make the ludicrous suggestion that the SS was syphilitic. I think there was confusion here with VD in general. Whilst syphilis is a prime VD, VD covers many venereal infections, the most widespread of which was gonorrhoea, not syphilis. Fortunately that scourge was relatively rare.

But did you notice how quickly the story began to gain credence? Hopefully it is now killed in the bud.

Peter

Hi Peter,
Credit where credit is due, I would be as quick to find fault if I thought anything wrong.

I am afraid we may not have seen the last of that story. People read Front Page who do not always take part in the rest of the site.
My Grandson in America has brought the site to the notice of his History class and makes comment by email to me. What are they going to make of such sweeping statements.
I was under the impression it would be altered or an addendum put on but that has not happened.
There may now be another flurry of postings from people who believe it is the absolute truth.
Keep Watch,
Regards Frank.

I've answered Beniton's latest posting "Hitler's photos" A2615573

I do hope he takes it calmly!

Regards,

Peter

Peter,
Funnily I have read about the same thing last week and the involvement or none as it should be on the Italian front.
I will await the storm.
Regards Frank.

Hello Peter and Frank. Frank, I did put a post 'clarification' either on Sunday or Monday of last week. Unfortunately your post had already appeared. I went into hospital for minor foot surgery on Tuesday and, as I've been playing a key part in persuading Leicestershire MPs of the democratic value of going through the correct lobby during pensions bill third reading this week, you'll appreciate just how short of time I am. Could you read my post and the original 9 sentences? Please. Does it now seem anti-Italian? Perhaps anti-British? Peter, if you check you will find that when you left this site, I put a message on your own site asking you to return. I value your factual contributions. Did my action seem anti-Italian? Frank. Reg raised this incident in the context of a criticism of the allies, quite separately from the rest of his story. He was concerned it might be perceived as anti-Italian. I asked 6 post war relatives to read it and none had any problems. We had thought Reg was seriously exaggerating. Would I have asked the BBC for their opinion if I just wanted to write an anti-Italian story? You are correct, by the way, Peter that I don't distinguish between syphilis and veneral disease in the way that older people do. Both have lost their stigma and advanced stages aren't seen. I notice Frank that you explained why it was a slur. Hopefully the slur has now been 'clarified' I'm sure you'd accept that if either of us really wanted to make insults, we would find a better method than one that needed explanation to an audience that doesn't regard them as such. It's no more effective than calling Richard III a hunchback! I accept that if I'd doubled the lenth of the article I might have managed to make it more precise. I do know that emails and fora tend to cause feelings to run higher than direct conversation. If that is the case, I'm happy to ask Helen to give you my phone number. I live in Leicester and I'm perfectly harmless at present as I only have one foot! Geography permitting, I'm perfectly happy to buy you both a drink once hopping range has increased. I actually came here as I wondered if Peter might be able to help on http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/F1731308?thread=377779 Best wishes paul

Paul

Many thanks for your message. I am afraid that you have still not understood my position; I will try to clarify it.

I have nothing whatsoever against any anti-Italian story or anti-British story providing such stories are true. If the truth puts any country in a bad light then so be it. That was not my point.

My entire point was that the story is simply beyond belief. Syphilis was never as prevalent as your story suggests. That twenty or thirty senior officers would have syphilis is astounding to say the least, and quite beyond belief. The period between secondary and tertiary syphilis can be anything from 3 to 30 years, affecting 30% of those contracting the disease. The idea that they all had primary syphilis and all at the same time (it vanishes after 6 weeks and often goes undetected) defies any know statistic. The reason why syphilis is held in such horror is that often in secondary syphlis the entire nose is eaten away, leaving a grotesque cavity, if untreated. You later said that "I'm sure Reg assumed that the Italian incidence would be similar to that of other populations. That seems a reasonable assumption for a very old infectious disease." In fact it isn't. Italians and French have never been squeamish or hypocritical about sex. Both countries before the war had state controlled brothels under medical supervision, the result was that the incidence of syphilis was lower than in non-regulated countries. They were closed after the war, resulting in an increase in gonorrhoea.

You asked, Paul, "Would the Allies have mentioned the presence of penicillin at any point in negotiations? Might it have sweetened a very bitter pill?" But there were no prolonged negotiations or offered sweetners. Following brief talks in Lisbon, cut short by the Allies informing the Italians that no terms could be negotiated and that only unconditional surrender was acceptable, on 1 September, the Italian government replied to the Allies requested answer, that the surrender terms should be accepted, as follows: "The answer is affirmative, repeat affirmative. Known person will arrive Thursday morning, 2 September, time and place arranged." (text of surrender telegram quoted in full in "Second World War" by Martin Gilbert, revised edition, page 456) - and that was it. There was no sugaring of any bitter pill here, it was take it or leave it.

But this is a digression. The real point is the low incidence of syphilis and the extreme unlikelihood of a group of very senior officers having it and then selfishly seeking a cure before any of their men (for the story implies that naval ratings had it too). For years there was a similar story, repeated by some early historians, that Mussolini too was syphilitic, until finally laid to rest by later, more detailed, research.

On an entirely different matter, I am sorry to learn that you have lost a foot, Paul, ... and thanks ever so much for the offer of a drink.

Best wishes,

Peter