h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi,

I have seen that you know some thing about the battle of St. valery, you may be able to advise me.
My Grandfather was V.G.W Engstrom. He was a Pilot of one of the aircraft shot down over St. Valery (France) on 6th June 1940. He was bombing armoured troop divisions and crash landed in 'no mans land' (just in front of the advancing Germans). I would be very interested in talking to anyone who knows anything or anyone involved.
My Grandfather managed to escape, though injured; he went to find help for his crew and came across the 51st Highland Division. He asked for a raid party to be formed to help rescue his crew. However by the time this was done the Germans had already captured them. His crew were Sgt M.R. Chouler and Sgt D. Liddle who became POWs.
He eventually found his way back to England via Rouen and Paris. This took him 6 days mostly on foot.
I would like to learn more about the location of the 51st Highland Division on the 6th of June 1940, this way I could more accurately pinpoint the crash site.
If you can help please reply or call me on +44 (0)7932 122 791

Hello Petenz,
My knowledge of those times comes from an intense interest in the Northern Divisions as many of our local boys served with them. I have read everything I can about those times and got much informations from search engines. There are many excellent books on the subject.
The Highland Div were holding a very loose line along the River Bresle were most of the bridges were blown. The Argylls were at Ault-Tully-Escarbotin.
The Blackwatch Fressenville-Feuguieres and 152 brigade ahd fallen back along the Abbeville- Blangy road. At Martainville were 4th Camerons. 7th Argylls were trying to hold Franleu. Those were the main positions on 6th-7th June but they were all rapidly driven back with huge losses.
I am sorry I cannot give you more information than that but I will contact Peter who can probably give more details about that particular bombing raid in which your Grandfather and his crew were shot down.
Regards Frank.

Dear Petenz

You need to consult volume 1 of "Royal Air Force Bomber Command Losses of the Second World War 1939-1940" by W.R. Chorley. Unfortunately I only have the subsequent volumes and vol.1 is out of print, but do try your local library. If they haven't got it, ask them to get it for you.

All is not lost however. Fortunately you gave the full name of the survivors, Sgt M. Chouler and Sgt D. Liddle. I consulted the PoW lists for Bomber command, and from that further data, the exact plane they were in.

In sum, the plane was a Blenheim Mark IV bomber, serial number R3692, of No. 40 Squadron, stationed at RAF Wyton in Huntingdonshire. On 6 June 1940 the squadron took off to bomb in the St Valéry area, to assist the badly pressed 51st Highland Division. It was one of seven Blenheims lost on that day.

Sgt M.R. Chouler was the observer and Sgt D. Little the wireless operator/air gunner. The plane crash-landed in the battle area.

Since you say that your grandfather, the pilot, walked to get help I am assuming that they crash-landed no more than, say, 5km from the front line. Unfortunately that is more difficult to determine. On 6 June the 51st was strung out to the east of the River Bresle, they fell back on it during the next day.

The only other detail I can find is that your grandfather was treated in a UK hospital. As to his two crew-members, Sgt Chouler's PoW number was 759 and he was in Stalag #/357. Stalag #/357 was in fact two camps, one at Oerbke (Fallingbostel) in Germany, the other at Thorn in Poland.
Sgt Liddle, who was wounded went to Stalag IXC at Bad Sulza, Mühlhausen, in Germany, but was repatriated in, I believe, October 1943 under the Geneva Convention on severely wounded PoWs.

I hope this helps, but do try to get the volume on 1939-1940 Bomber Command Losses. It may have additional information.

Best wishes,

Peter

On the morning of Thursday, 6 June 1940, British army unit location was as follows: a line from Oisemont to the Route Nationale, along the line of the railway track, was manned by 152 Brigade, with the 1st Lothians, the 2nd Battalion Seaforth Highlanders, 5th Battalion Gordon Highlanders, and 4th Camerons, holding from right to left. The French 31st Division was next, still on the railway line to the edge of Vismes. The 153rd Infantry Brigade then took then covered the line to near Hocquelus, with the 1st Battalion Black Watch on the right and the 1st Battalion Gordon Highlanders on the left.

It would help considerably if you knew which unit assisted your grandfather. However, in the absence of that, it follows from your account, that your grandfather crash-landed south-west of the railway line. Speculating further, possibly in the Forêt d'Eu area.

I doubt however, if there will be any record of this given the fluidity of the situation and the high number of planes that were brought down on that day. Usually the wreck of a plane lies buried, but given that all the crew remained with the plane it also follows that the aircraft was on the surface and was probably later removed.

Regards,

Peter

Thank you for your advice. I have a letter from the MOD in which they quote a letter sent by Group Captain R Foster (the officer commanding RAF Wyton) to sgt. Chouler's father dated 21 June 1940 ...."The aircraft landed between our forces and the advancing Germans and the pilot and your son [sgt. Chouler] took the air gunner, who was wounded, into a deserted farm house and gave him first aid. The pilot then left the two of them there while he went out to seek help. After a good many vicissitudes during which he encountered enemy patrols, the pilot eventually fetched up with a Battalion of the Black Watch. A rescue party was organised, but when it was on its way.....they met a party of Frenchmen who had been driven out of that district by the advancing Germans.....According to the pilot the German troops in that sector were known to be Bavarians, and we can therefore assume that prisoners would be well treated."

So if we can pinpoint the 'Black Watch' on the morning the 6th June 1940, we could assume that the crash site would be halfway between them and the advancing Bavarians!

Time to get some maps out I think.

Your comments / further advice appreciated.

-petenz

As I said above, the 1st Battalion Black Watch was to the right of the Gordons, on the rail line between Vismes to near Hocquelus.

But that was on the morning of the 6th of June in a rapidly changing situation. By afternoon they were falling back to the river Bresle. The French soldiers your grandfather met were probably in the French 31st Division.

That is the best I can do. All sources indicate that the plane crash-landed, so no wreckage will be buried.

Regards,

Peter