h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Maybe you can help me. My father was part of the Ist canadian division, (Hasting and Prince Edward Regiment) having landed in Sicily and making his way all the way up to Ortona.

The other day I came across a rather intriguing post -"Canadians in Italy" by TropperTomCanning who claims a "full-scale fight" took place between the Ist Canadaian Division and the 5th Canadian Division in early 1944. I was aware there was some animosity between the two divisions, but I never heard of this before. Have you? Where can I find more info on this incident? I read some official Canadian Military Reports of the time but they make no mention of this. Maybe there was a cover-up.

Thanks.

Ron MacGillivray
Flatbush, Ab
Canada

[email protected]

Dear Ron -

That there was a cover up there is no doubt although LtCol Nicholson refers to a fight at Ortona...
The way we heard of it was thus -
The 1st Div had been fighting hard from landing in Sicily and were particularly well thought of by Gen Montgomery as being a first class fighting outfit.

The 1st Div was exhausted at Ortona and they were pulled back for a rest...on the way back they were overtaken by some unit of the 5th Armed (Mighty Maroon Machine)who had not as yet fired a shot in any battle - as they had recently landed - one idiot stuck his head out of the back of the truck and yelled at some Seaforths(2nd Bde) " we will now show you how to fight )"

The 1st had a two day rest - the 5th Armed had by then been introduced to the German 4th Batt 1st para Div and were solidly aware of what war was all about !

They then pulled back - to meet up with the fully rested 1st Div ... and the fight was on ! It took a while to separate them as there was more than just a little 'animosity' involved.

When Gen. Montgomery was informed of the facts he then "fired" the 5th Armed Div and after a small battle in which they were then occupied - they were sent over close to the American sector.

That left the 1st Div without Tank support and so the 25th and 21st British TanK Brigades were 'volunteered" for the task.
The first time in battle together was at the Liri Valley and Hitler lines in which all suffered tremendous casualties with the North Irish Horse losing some 14 Tanks inside ten minutes and the 51st RTR losing the same half a mile away.
The 5th Armed were further over to the left as they had tangled with 6th British Armed Div. and were pushed over towards the Sacco River with the 21st Tank Bde which was in reserve to the 25th tank bde!The 5th Armed got their comeuppance at a place called Frosinone !

The 21st then took up the task once more at the Gothic Line with 25th in reserve, supporting 2nd bde of Seaforths, PPCLI, and the Loyal Edies with the RCR - H&P's(1st bde) over towards the Rimini Airfield.3rd bde on our left with the Vandoos etc We all took a bashing at Coriano and the 25th plus the 5th Cdn Armed and the Brit 1st Armoured Div plus a few more were introduced to the battle which concluded on 23 September at Rimini.

If you by some chance read Lt Col Nichloson's account of that battle you will find a tremendous tribute to 21st tanks by Gen. Tommy Burns and others for ' "unselfishly sending in squadrons of Tanks no matter the cost" The cost was high from a bde strength of 2200 we lost 306 officers and men plus a very large contingent of wounded of which I was one.

All of my regiment dead were buried at the Canadian Cemetery at Riccione on 1st October 1944 with your Padre and our Fr. "pop" Higgins leading the prayers and Brig.T.G.Gibson giving the address, the lament was played by the Pipers of the Seaforths, and the band was from the 2nd N.Z. Div. - they say it was a beautiful ceremony, this is hearsay as I was by then still in hospital ! My 35 friends have since been moved to another cemetery at Coriano Ridge where we all had some bother - with the German paras once more. The 21st Tank Bde continued to support the 1st Cdn Div until they moved to N.W.Europe in early '45

I vis1ted this cemetery at Coriano just last month and was struck by the peaceful and beautiful area that it is now, where all my friends are buried and including some of both the 1st and 5th Cdn divs. who are finally at peace !

Tom

Could you link this superb account to the Editorial Desk? I'm sure that many others will find it of interest - I certainly did. It deserves a far wider readership.

Regards,

Peter

Peter -
you should by now know my limitations regarding all things computerese - how do you do it ? I have been in touch with Gerry Chester- North Irish Horse- who may add afew cents worth also.
chhers
tomcan

Tom Create a link like this: 1. Create a new 'story' at the Editorial Desk by giving it a title. 2. For the text just say "Go here http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/ww2/F135792?thread=512213 ". [paste that in, if you like]. 3. That's it! :) Cheers Peter