h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Besides many elements that I can understand while this commemoration
There are two things still bugging my mind.

Was the occupation of this Island enough reason to start a real war?..
Not that soon.
It was more a theatrical personal "statement" by Margaret Thatcher, translated in war.

The second problem for me.

Almost at the end of this war, an Argentine submarine had turned and was on its way to Argentine.
Still it got a torpedo by the others and 200 men died, while an enemy on the run should never be shot at, according to Geneva conventions.

Today, besides all British soldiers I also commemorate the Argentines.


Alfredo, Amsterdam

"Was the occupation of this Island enough reason to start a real war?"

As reasons to to take up military action go you'd think that the occupation of a territory you have legal obligation to service defense to by the forces of a military dictatorship are pretty clear. Especially when you have already engaged in a diplomatic process with that nation over the future of the island.
At any point between the occupation and the arrival of our forces the Argentines could have backed down, instead they attempted to bulster the position.

"Almost at the end of this war, an Argentine submarine had turned and was on its way to Argentine."

The General Belgrano was not a submarine it was a former US warship, it was torpedo by a British submarine called HMS Conquerer and it resulted in the loss of 323 Argentines. The torpedoing didn't breach international law. Nor is the fact that it was heading in any particular direction important.
Was is important is that it was hostile ship and threat to the safety of British forces engaged in the liberation of territory from beligerant occupiers.
The fact it was outside an exclusion zone we imposed on ourselves is a point of principle.
If we'd imposed a larger exclusion zone it wouldn't have been outside it.

"It was more a theatrical personal "statement" by Margaret Thatcher, translated in war."

Wrong, it was Galtieri who was enging in theatre in order to strengthen his popular support.

Well, your comments make some sense.

But this statement is the weakest;

Quote; "Nor is the fact that it was heading in any particular direction important".

"and threat to the British forces"

Well, if it was heading to Argentine, it was fleeing, on the run (Geneva convention) and also no threat = no need to kill.


But it feels good that there is any discussion about it at H2G2.
Just because humans and wars will always go hand in hand, so it continuously needs our attention.


Greetings from Amsterdam

"Well, if it was heading to Argentine, it was fleeing, on the run (Geneva convention) and also no threat = no need to kill."

Surely on that logic, any aircraft returning to a carrier or airbase to re-arm or refuel would be no threat and as such shouldn't have been attacked. I wonder just how many returning aircraft have been shor down over the years?

Yes, sorry about the Belgrano sinking, the guys on board must have been so happy about going home.

However, the british had many casualties of this war, not the least of which was HMS Sheffield and 25 of her Crew.
http://www.ayup.co.uk/shuttup/shuttup2-0.html
HMS Sheffield was attacked with Exocet missiles.

These Exocet missiles, and the planes used to deliver them, were supplied to the Galtieri regime throughout the war by our neighbour and european 'partner' just across the channel there.

Lest We Forget.

alec

Nine days before the sinking, the following message was passed to the Argentine govt via the Swiss -

"In announcing the establishment of a Maritime Exclusion Zone around the Falkland Islands, Her Majesty's Government made it clear that this measure was without prejudice to the right of the United Kingdom to take whatever additional measures may be needed in the exercise of its right of self-defence under Article 51 of the United Nations Charter. In this connection Her Majesty's Government now wishes to make clear that any approach on the part of Argentine warships, including submarines, naval auxiliaries or military aircraft, which could amount to a threat to interfere with the mission of British Forces in the South Atlantic will encounter the appropriate response."

"Argentine Rear-Admiral Allara who was in charge of the task force that the Belgrano was part of said, "After that message of 23 April, the entire South Atlantic was an operational theatre for both sides. We, as professionals, said it was just too bad that we lost the Belgrano"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARA_General_Belgrano

I remember the war, and the circumstances surrounding it well.

The saddest thing is, I think, that there would have been no war had it not been for Galtieri's assumption that the British wouldn't be bothered by an invasion so far from the home shores. He was badly mistaken, and calling Mrs T's bluff was never going to be a good idea.

Having watched Carole Thatcher recently go to the Argentine - and more importantly - the reception she received when there - I wonder at the mentality of a population so bitter and unwilling to learn from the experience of war. Given half a chance they would repeat the entire exercise.

To be fair, if we were repeatedly taught from earliest childhood that Calais was legitimately British and had been stolen from us by the French, there would probably be strong support for military action to invade France.

Living in a part of the world where that mentality is rife and indeed was until recently acted upon - I have to say there must be a time when as a people you accept that history is just that .... history, and the world has moved on. They had their war, and lost, that should be the end of it - it's the 21st Century now and the islanders are free to make their own choices -- which I believe they have done.

But SWL, it was!

"Treaty of Brétigny assigned Guînes, Marck and Calais – collectively the "Pale of Calais" – to English rule in perpetuity"

Pass me my broadsword and gird me loins, we march on the perfidious French at dawn.

Looks like you missed the ferry SWL.

"I wonder at the mentality of a population so bitter and unwilling to learn from the experience of war. Given half a chance they would repeat the entire exercise."

Tabloid headline: "Foreigners in 'bunch of belligerent barbarians' shock" isn't going to surprise anyone.

SoRB

I got a reply that I also want to post here;

Quote;
Thanks for your comment.

It was and is clear to me, why the dictator of Argentine did what he did. Trying to become popular in his country.

Al though it's more relevant if the Falklands would belong to Argentine, their way of occupying it with cynical motives is clearly not a mature way of behaving in the world community of states.


I just got a comment at another site which I would like to post.

Quote; "My cousin was an officer on a British warship in the Falklands War. He helped to rescue burning bodies from the Sir Galahad.

The commemorations here yesterday were commemorations of ALL who died in the Falklands War - both British and Argentineans."




Well, if it indeed was for ALL, then that would be stately by GB to do so.

Another reply, in this case from this topic at h2g2;

Quote; "Yes, sorry about the Belgrano sinking, the guys on board must have been so happy about going home".


To me it's fair to say that they indeed had the right to return home safely.

Of course we all know the sick dictatorship with all its cynical aims. That's clear to me.

Wasn't it really the popes fault for stirring up the hornets nest in the first place?

Not heard that one before Arnie. Care to fill me in?

I feel bad about each and every one of the deaths over the Falklands, but I have to say the decision to send the fleet was about the only decision Thatcher made with which I wholeheartedly agree.

The Belgrano... well, I'm in two minds about that. Personally I think it should not have happened. From a military point of view, I can see that it had to be disposed of.

In late '81 early '82, the pope gave serveral speeches in which he said something along the lines of "Islands are blessed" -a clear reference to South Georgia. This added religious fervor to the nationalistic zeal already present.

Ah. You learn something new every day.