h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I'm asking this question of the Forum because I really would like some serious answers. Usually we get answers like- "Well have you seen some people's bodies?" "Can you even imagine them?" Men of course always say that they would get an erection being nude in public- they probably mean that they fear being the least well endowed in the crowd.
Then, of course there are practical reasons to wear clothing like being too cold or avoiding sun burn, or keeping public furniture such as seats clean, but what it the real reason that the majority of the human race to have an inate fear of being naked in public? Any ideas?

Simply because it shows us at our weakest, and unprotected. Fight or flight psychology - if nude the human will either run like heck or fight (be bold).

Think you might have a bit of a chicken and egg scenario there.
Are we conscious of public nudity because we wear clothes or do we wear clothes because we fear public nudity?

Given that there are many very old and established cultures (although many now indecline) where nudity or at least partial nudity is perfectly acceptable, and archaology shows several more (think of the ancient Egyptians and the Minoans to name but two), I think it is a case of wearing clothes due to climatic or other environmental reasons (some forms of clothing are, after all, protection against flora and fauna) and that then becoming the norm for those societies.

The members (fnar, sorry, had to lower the tone somewhere!) of that society then develop a fear of nudity, based on being different from the local norm and being subject to public ridicule. This is probably compounded by the change of clothing from the mere practical to the fashionable and status driven.

Thus to be without ones clothes is to be a mixture of defenceless and statusless.

In common with other physical enhancements we use, such as makeup or jewellry, many people come to associate their dress with a barrier between them and the real world.

However, all of that is subjective to me being a member of a society where public nudity is looked down on and I suspect a member of a different society where clothes are not worn so abundantly may well have a different viewpoint.

Although it would be interesting if there was some other element they felt 'undressed' without, such as necklace or tribal markings, or even something like a bow and arrow or other weapon.

Or Matt's response, which pretty much says what I said but using only one sentence, the clever wotsit.

Numerous reasons:

*Practicality - the human form isn't terribly well-suited to most cold climates (we originate in Africa, remember) and so we need clothes to protect ourselves from the elements.

*Sexuality - many people are uncomfortable with strangers admiring them in a sexual, arguably predatory way and so cover-up the sex organs and other sexually desirable parts of the body (breast, backside, sometimes legs) in order to protect their privacy. This social-control of sexuality is arguably the reason so many religions place an emphasis on women dressing modestly (the mysogyny that often accompanies this is a classic case of men pinning the blame for their own lack of control of women).

*Dignity. In the advanced stages of middle-age (50+) the human body usually loses most of it's youthful attractiveness and starts to become saggy and wrinkly. Older people can disguise and draw-attention from this by covering everything up and dressing well. Remove a human's clothes and you remove both their chosen identity and their dignity. There's a reason that one of the things done to strip a political/racial enemy of his/her dignity is to remove their clothes - remember Winston Smith in 1984 when O'Brien forces him to strip and mocks the state of his body?

Yet in a man's shower room nudity is accepted, where we should presumably feel just as vulnerable.

In Germany they get their kit off at the drop of a hat, and the appearance of an oompah band.

Does this date back to Victorian morality, certainly 100 years before that bare breasts were very much in vogue ?

Dress, body decoration and hairstyles are also used to differentiate between groups of people.

Even in cultures where little or no clothing is worn, people wear things to differentiate themselves within their families, communal group and other groups.

In the Amazon, for instance, each group on Indians has distinctive head-dress and body paint style by which they can be identified. Even within a group you can tell the men from the women (when you can't see the body parts), married from unmarried, elder from youth.

In our society, we use dress both as a differentiator and as a way of saying "I am like you". Global culture dictates that teens dress in a certain recognizable way. Kids in Africa want to be seen as the same as kids in LA but they certainly don't want to be the same as an adult in LA.

We also use dress to enforce certain cultural standards. We want foreigners to dress "like us" when living in our society but don't want to dress like them in their society. Certain groups enforce dress codes as a way of controlling, as in the case of private (public, in the UK) school kids.... or in edicts regarding "traditional dress" as in wartime Japan and Afghanistan under the Taliban.... forming them into a cohesive group.

In the latter example, these dress-codes were enforced on pain of death. Men whose beards looked as though they had been trimmed could be beaten or worse, as could women who accidentally showed a toe outside their burkha.

All I can say is that life would be so much easier if we didn't (have to) wear clothes that set us apart but then we would all be complaining because we all looked alike....

Thanks for all the wisdom contributed. What still puzzles me is included in Matt's reply- fight or flight. It seems odd that when no other animal is a bit shy about being nude and doesn't seem to be inspired to fight or fly because it doesn't have any clothing on, human beings do? It must be in some way an acquired response, but how do we acquire it? I like to think that I am a rational person and I agree there are occasions when a rational person would have reasons to wear clothing, on the other hand I wander about starkers in the changing room, in the home and have even been to a naturist club with mixed sexes including children, yet still I would leap for covering if someone came to door. Why?

Presumably it's part of our awareness of our being.

If someone comes to the door, you don't know if they're friend or foe - you need your 'identity' intact. Animals without clothes have a different style of grouping - their sense of fight or flight is more to do with ranking in the pack, mating or familial relationshships.

I think this is more a feature of societal pressures. We have come to believe that nudity is either shameful or illegal.

In fact, in some societies, nudity is less neither offensive nor embarrasing. Whereas, something entirely unrelated to clothing might be considered shocking or offensive. In Japan, for instance, it would, at one time, have been considered the height of rudeness to refuse to strip down and join the family (or, indeed) the neighbourhood, in the tub while appearing nude at the dinner-table (I am just guessing here) might be considered very offensive. And yet, in Japan, it was considered very rude to smile showing your teeth, yet burping and f@rting at dinner might not have been.

Since every culture has its strict dress-codes which may include NOT wearing clothes, it can't simply be a general human trait to find nudity offensive. I think it is far more complicated than that.

"In fact, in some societies, nudity is less neither offensive nor embarrasing"

Now THAT was mangled... Should have read In fact, in some societies, nudity is neither offensive nor embarrasing

I might also say that, in Victorialn England, dress-codes were so complicated and extensive that there were manuals on the subject.

A woman appearing at a certain function without a hat might be shunned, while appearing at another function in a dress that was cut almost to the nipples wouldn't have raised an eyebrow.

There were highly complicated rules petaining to dress and conduct that a person might be ostracized and be considered a permanent social outcast for what we would proably not even notice.

If I recall correctly, the movie "Jezabel" Bette Davis appears at a "social" wearing a red dress..... the reaction was just about as strong as if she had appeared naked. In fact, most of us can being so embarrased at having to wear certain clothes when we were teens that it it was not unlike how we would feel if we had been naked.

Is this relevant? F19585?thread=1488591

I think that's it, Matt... Vulnerability - and not to mention cold! It's freezing here right now...

The main problem with nudity is I've never got anywhere to put my cigarettes and lighter... No clothes =no pockets...

Have you read the wonderful Dr Seuss book "The Sneetches" about prejudice towards those who look different? Starts "The star bellied sneetches had bellies with stars, The plain-belly sneetches had none upon thars.." I think it's relevant to this discussion

I think the sentence about the majority of the human race having a fear of being naked in public is quite an assumption. I would say there are plenty of places where that isn't the case.
As mentioned we humans have to wear clothes for climactic reasons in most places. I think since nudity then ended up being something we see so little of, it became seen as a bit odd. Also it does leave you unprotected in several ways. And there's the fear of legal repercussions in several countries.
As to why animals are not embarassed, well since they can't make clothes how would we know? But if you were to shave the fur off a dog, I imagine you probably could make it feel ashamed.

That book is excellent! I remember it from years ago. Must look it up again. Thanks for reminding me of it.

TRiG.

If God had meant us to be naked, He'd have made us that way....

He? Come on now, just look at men naked...

If that ain't a joke I don't know what is...