h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Morning all,

First may I say that I ask this question in ignorance,and without preconceptions.

I only know two alcoholics ( admitted ). One has been 'dry' for 20 years, the other is exceeedingly 'wet'. Both have my sympathy, especially the 'wet' one who seems unable to deal with life without being drunk.

My question is simple. Is alcoholism a disease which one is born with / inherits / or can "catch" , or is it just a weaknes of character?

I pose the question this way because both of the characters involved are similar in their attitudes and behaviour. Both are on the face of it 'strong' , but I would say demanding and forceful in getting what they want. Both are self centred to the point of regarding life as rvolving around them, and both seek to 'control' the behaviour of others around them. Megolamania is too strong a word , but carries some of my feeling.

Do all alcoholics share this , or similar mindsets ?, or is it just my perception. Is alcoholism just another manifestation of fear, like those who take both prescribed and Class A / B drugs to cope with life

I'll bat this back atcha... does it matter? As in, alcoholism is what it is. Would characterising it as an illness or as a weakness of character *help*? And if so, in what way?

SoRB

From the way I understand it, and from what I've seen in alcoholics (including having lived with one for a number of years), its a pre-existing 'tendancy' or 'likelyhood' of being alcoholic in the individual, which will or 'may' come out and be alcoholism in a given indidivudal with the pre-existing perpensity for alcohol dependance depending on factors such as if they are exposed to alcohl, and on their personality. Its certainly a physical dependancy on alcohol by the time someone is an alcoholic, the individuals I've known just can't/couldn't function till they've had a drink, and this does seem to eventually also become a psychological dependancy too, and it creates a very viscious circle of dependancy between these two halfs of the coin.

Fair point SoRB

I suppose it doesn't matter. I just wonder whether some people are classed as A or B and treated innapropriately. It is just general interest really.

My only experience of it was severe depression, which "might" have turned me to drink, but thankfully did not. I was sorted out by with medication. So I'm lucky. I wonder if I might have "become" an alcoholic without the appropriate help.

Novo

Interesting point, SoRB. Labelling a problem like this seems more to the advantage of the 'observer' somehow. If it is considered an illness then perhaps more sympathy is involved. Simply calling it 'weakness of character' sounds rather judgemental to me.

I reckon it's a rather more complicated issue than what you have asked about, novo, not an either/or thing that can be easily understood. Which I think is clearly shown in how individual alcoholics respond to various treaments. Some do very well with the AA twelve-step programme, others require something quite different.

As with all substance abuse problems, obviously there are underlying personal issues that need to be dealt with, as well as dealing with controlling self-abusive behaviour.


az

Hmm. I see what you mean. As in, if you call it an illness, it gets "treatment", assuming the victim acknowledges it. If you call it a weakness of character, it gets judged and condemned.



Good point.

I was coming at it from the point of view of "it doesn't matter what you *call* it, it only matters what you *do* about it". I guess...

SoRB

And I quite agree with you, SoRB, that what matters is what gets done about it, not how it is labelled. It's the labelling that I think can get in the way of proper help and treatment being either sought or provided.


az

There are two genetic factors at work here - one causes a tendency towards "escaping reality" (for want of a better term), and one causes a tendency towards addiction. I have known alcoholics that drink substantionally less than some social drinkers who can take it or leave it.

In addition, anyone having trouble dealing with reality, regardless of whether it is due to depression or external factors, will be more likely to turn to drink. The fact that both your examples are assertive seems counter-intuitive - in general alpha males suffer less stress than their downtrodden peers, live longer happier lives and would be less likely to turn to drink. I think you'd find a larger proportion of meek and timid alcoholics. In my experience some of the nicest and most selfless people I've ever met have been alcoholics.

It is probably an illness, but one that can be caused by genetic and/or external factors. It is no more a character weakness than depression or any other less-than-perfect personality trait.

Alcoholism has both a developmental component and a genetic component.

The genetic component can be an inherited susceptibility to certain behavioral patterns, an inherited genetic predisopsition to addiction, and a brain chemistry which enhances the properties of certain chemicals.... There has alos been suggested that there is an "addiction gene" or lack of a addction prevention gene" at wirk.

As well, as has been shown in certain aboriginal communities, societal conditions, a lack of apprporiate care, and a complete breakdown in the social-support network of the community have produced a series of self-perpetuating addiction problems.

Fetal Alcohol Syndrome, for instance, is a result of but also a self-perpetuating cause of addition.

Example: Children removed from their homes and sent to Residential Schools, cut off from the support system of their families and communities, returned without the ability to cope withing their communities. They also had psychological damage due to abuse and the lack of loving relationships and the guiding hand of their families and communities. They turned to alcohol.

Many produced FAS children (conceived and exposed to alcohol throughout the pregnancy). These children, with parents who had no parenting themselves, produce children either with FAS or with a combination of genetic and adaptive social problems, have children.... with FAS and adaptive social problems....

Hardly simply a "state of mind".

This scenario does not reflect the experience of the vast majority of those addicted to alcohol. It is, however, give you the ability to understand the complexity of the problem.

Genetic and alcoholism:

http://www.biologynews.net/archives/2006/02/22/alcoholism_smoking_and_genetics_among_plains_american_indians.html

http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/NewsEvents/NewsReleases/anxiety.htm

http://www.brainerd.net/~esserste/essays/alcohol.htm

I would also say that there are different kinds of alcoholics.

I quit drinking in high school, before I was legally allowed to drink. By then, I had been drinking for 3 years or so.

I considered myself to have "an alcohol problem". While I didn't drink at home or alone (tried it once... didn't like it), when out with my friends, I drank to excess.... sometimes to near alcohol poisoning. After two very memorable events where drinking beer and then later alcohol, I embarrased myself and then my family, I decided to quit.

After 6 years of not drinking, I began drinking again. Never to excess. One or two drinks of an evening. Even than, I might not have a drink for over a year. I have occasionally gotten tipsy but never "drunk". I never feel the "need" to drink.

In my case, I realized that my drinking was not the problem. It was low self-esteem and a belief that, when drinking, I became a "fun person". In fact, I was merely a sloppy drunk when drinking.

Once I realized that I didn't need alcohol to be the life of a party, alcohol found its place as part of a social situation rather than the main part of a social situation.

I think for some people, the problem starts as it did with me, a social crutch. Unfortunately, too many people learn to depend on the crutch (or don't know that they should set it aside, at least for a while until they learn how to walk) and addiction sets in.

Well, basically, what Mudhooks said. There is no 'one size fits all' concept for people who abuse alcohol or other substances.


az

Exactly...

I remember listening to a debate over a rehab program which suggested that "social alcoholics" could resume drinking once they had overcome the social issues which caused the drinking.

There was resistence in the extreme from the "alcoholics are alcoholics not matter what" camp. Even they failed to understand that there are different forms of alcoholism.

Of course, someone who was close to me at one time and was an alcoholic, nearly dying over Christmas a few years ago. He had been drinking to the point where his body was existing merely on alcohol without much in the way of any form of solid food. When he was finally convinced to go to hospital (packing a case of beer "just in case"), his body was so dependent upon it that within hours he was in a coma which nearly took his life.

He was in the coma for several months (which is, it is theorized, the most successful method of eliminating an addiction, rather than "experiencing" the withdrawal) and when he finally came out of is was sent to a rehabilitation centre so that he could relearn to walk and talk. Eventually, when his congitive ablility returned, he was discussing his situation with his family. He was looking at his fellow wardmates who were in recovering from brain injuries due to accidents (several while drinking and driving), he opined that "Frank" was not allowed to drink for 6 months and "Bill" was not allowed to drink for 9 months, so he would likely not be able to drink for a year....

Meanwhile, his family was trying to impress upon him that drinking was out for him... period... forever. He had pretty well no liver left and any alcohol would kill him. The hospital staff refused to "tell" him he couldn't drink again because it was "up to him". The family was begging them to tell him the truth. "Privacy issues" prevented them from telling him until he asked.

It wasn't until his tough old Scottish family doctor came to visit him and the friend was telling him about his "1 year" theory. The doctor looked at him and bellowed "Sonny, you can't have another drink... EVER. A single drink will kill you and if it doesn't kill you, you will be rendered into a vegetative state. It'll kill you, Man."

Apparently, this was the shocker he needed....

He hasn't had a drink since.

Mind you... there are three sorts of ex-drinkers, in my experience.

The "born-again" ex-drinker who wants to convert anyone, anywhere, even if they don't have a problem.

The ones who just don't drink, don't tell you how to live your life, but scoialize.

and...

The ones who live their alcholism vicariously... the party-animal who is as annoying sober as they were drunk because they are loud, wild, and obnoxious... just sober.

He was this last sort.....

Even I, who arely drank at all was forever getting the "You're a party-pooper" because I didn't drink. "Come on! Have drink!...."

He was quite clear that if he had so much as a drop, he'd die.... but it was okay for his wife, who was every much an alcoholic as he was to drink herself under the table every night.

I lost somebody very close to me from Alcholism a few years ago and in his case I would say there was a combination of inheritance and illness.

However it isn't an illness that is easily cured and people with no experience of it are quick to condem the victim with the 'pull yourself together' message. As with any addiction the mental aspects are the hardest to treat.

It was harrowing to see an intelligent, well educated, family man with bright career and family prospects loose his family, job and self respect by drinking himself into a preposterously early grave. It is only when you realise the truth that you look back and recognise that the signs had been there for many years.

Hi Mudhooks,

Interesting posts, and articles too.

From yours and others I see that the alcoholic has a considered predisposition to becoming one. No post has referred to the "characters" of my examples ,, but I accept that they are probably entirely coincidental and therefore not comparable with alcoholics in general.

On a general point, I referred to my own experience with depression because I 'thought' that I may have turned to drinking at the time, and become alcoholic due to lack of treatment for the real cause. It may be of interest to know that I inherit a condition which has a predisposition to depression. It is now 'controlled', and as such I am like a "dry" alcoholic. This however required medical intervention to identify.

Thanks all for the posts.

Novo

Well, I know in the case of the person who I mentioned as nearly having died....

His family all have alcohol problems. He was adopted and I believe that there is at least some FAS invloved in his case. However, the family all have problems accepting that they, too, have problems.

They were always pointing at him and saying "You need help." all the while exhibiting many of the same signs as he did. One would point the finger at me for being on medication for depression and say "My family doesn't take tranquilizers."....

No... but your family self-medicates with alcohol.... and... they aren't tranquilizers.

The most ludicrous response I ever heard was "It's a Native thing".

I said that it was the stupidest thing I ever heard. If someone who was not Native said that, it would be racist....

The thing, too, was that the father had been taken and placed in Residential School at age 4. He wrote down some of his experiences at Residential School. Not only did he suffere physical and mental abuse, but the bonds of his family were, for him, broken at age 4. He received no love, no caring, and no guidance. His sister was in the same school but they were never allowed to touch and only allowed to meet once a uear at Christmas where they got 15 minutes together... again, not permitted to hug or touch.

It is little wonder that he has problems and that he has passed those problems on to his family.

However, they do not see any problems... I could plainly see the lack of warmth. The lack of compassion for the problems of others. The lack of intimacy. The inability to give and receive love. The drinking.

For the youngest member of the family, the person I was closest to, drinking was a daily ritual. A six-pack a day, at least when OI first got to know him.

It cut down considerably, but only due to my pressure. I believe that he has returned to that daily ritual.

However, for me to suggest that there was a problem was laughable.

According to them, since I was an "alcoholic" I was "putting my problems on them".

These are good people... they just have a BIG problem.

I have to say, though, that if there was one thing the near death of the brother did it was to bring the family closer and cause a change in the expression of love, if only a minor change.

Alcoholism can have a wide range of reasons and causes.

But, it's Always a mix of it.


I hate to see drunk peoples.
MY brother died because of alcohol = 43 years old (1984)

And I have known my father in the passed 30 years only with deeply red eyes. He's dead now.

But, if an alcoholic survives this way and doesn't bother his enviroment; no problem, but I just don't want to be part of it.


greetings from amsterdam