h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"A White House leak revealing astonishing details of how Tony Blair and George Bush lied about the Iraq war is set to cause a worldwide political storm. A new book exposes how the two men connived to dupe the United Nations and blows the lid off Mr Blair's claim that he was a restraining influence on Mr Bush. He offered his total support for the war at a secret White House summit as Mr Bush displayed his contempt for the UN, made a series of wild threats against Saddam Hussein and showed a devastating ignorance about the catastrophic aftermath of the war." - http://www.commondreams.org/headlines06/0129-04.htm

A cautionary note: the original source for this article is the (UK) Hatred on Sunday; we should bear in mind how keenly they sponsor conflict between 'them' and 'us', and maybe treat this news accordingly.

For a start: do we believe it?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Bush lies about going to war.

Blair, his lap dog, follows Bush wherever he goes.

Blair lies about going to war.

Hmm, seems pretty believable to me.

Hi P C

Even if we believe only 50% , it is pretty devastating - but confirms much of what the UK public seem to "believe" about the whole sorry mess.

Novo

A little quote from the piece "The book also makes serious allegations concerning the conduct of Foreign Secretary Jack Straw, Lord Chancellor Lord Falconer and Attorney General Lord Goldsmith over Goldsmith's legal advice on the war."

This is where we should be starting from in this country - why did Lord Goldsmith's advice suddenly change ?

I also think that the case of a scientist suddenly committing suicide, when the evidence is falling in his favour, should be looked at with fresh eyes.

Afternoon all,

The trouble with this thread is that it is a clu de sac.

Whilst many believe that the whole history of the lead-up to the Iraq adventure , the half truths, the downright lies, the lack of equipment, the non existence of a creditable programme for reconstruction, should be investigated thoroughly, nothing will ever happen.

The activities within Westminster have effectively closed off all avenues of investigation . The "Enquiries" held so far will always be held up as definitive, even though they vitually consisted of whitewash.

I long ago gave up any hope discovering the truth , aunless I live for another 30 years, and assuming that all the documents have not been shredded already.

Novo

Afternoon all,

The trouble with this thread is that it is a cul de sac.

Whilst many believe that the whole history of the lead-up to the Iraq adventure , the half truths, the downright lies, the lack of equipment, the non existence of a creditable programme for reconstruction, should be investigated thoroughly, nothing will ever happen.

The activities within Westminster have effectively closed off all avenues of investigation . The "Enquiries" held so far will always be held up as definitive, even though they vitually consisted of whitewash.

I long ago gave up any hope discovering the truth , unless I live for another 30 years, and assuming that all the documents have not been shredded already.

Novo

If we - the electorate - put up with it, as we did when this information first became known, then this thread and this issue cannot be anything but a waste of time, as you say, Novo. But that isn't a foregone conclusion, I hope. If we want it, we'll have a new President or a new Government. The question is: do we want it?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

And can we get anything better?

Well I'd be skeptical of leaks and amazing new facts until I saw them, that's probably just a matter of trying to sell the book.

But I still find it hard to believe that the intelligence gathered really gave reliable evidence for NBC type weapons in Iraq. Those weapons weren't there, and there were what I believe were good arguments (admittedly mixed with some knee-jerk opposition posturing) circulating beforehand that they wouldn't be there. And somehow the government, with access to so much more information than we had, got it all wrong.

I wouldn't put it past a straightforward lie. After all, Bush is still getting away with connection Iraq to the World Trade Center attacks in the US. Yes, of course there are terrorists there *now*. A flag from the US or UK flown in most of the Middle East is going to bring trouble. Maybe that was the plan all along: attract them to Iraq, bag 'em and ship 'em off to Cuba.

I find the whole set of principles rather worrying: Government knows best, pre-emptive defense, 'its for their own good' and export of ideals (although if there's one ideal worth imposing its that people should get a choice). And all with the resurgance of the doctrine of the Political Christ. Crusading analogies are anachronistic, but its not hard to see how people with an agenda could piece it together that way.

Hi P C

Yes, I would like to see a "real" investigation of the whole unneccessary adventure which cost the life of the 100th British Serviceman yesterday.

For our transatlantic friends I am aware that it is above 2000 for you.

But has it altered Blair's attitude.......NO ,of course not.
Can we get at the documents needed to "impeach" him.....No, again
In my view TB should be "impeached" if such a facility exists in the UK., but I just don't believe it can happen.

Remember, " A lie oft repeated becomes the truth" and it has certainly been repeated ad nauseam.

Side Issue - If a certain Royak Prince become a serving officer in Iraq , would you want to serve in his unit? I certainly wouldn't...what a superb target he will make.

Novo

"Yes, I would like to see a "real" investigation of the whole unneccessary adventure which cost the life of the 100th British Serviceman yesterday."

"For our transatlantic friends I am aware that it is above 2000 for you."

And for the Iraqi civilians, the figure long ago topped 100,000

Afternoon Apollyon,

A very fair point. Very remiss of me not to say it. My apologies to the Iraqi families involved.

Novo