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Korrang!
Icy North Started conversation Jul 22, 2015
The news story of the week is that the oldest surviving fragment of the Koran has been discovered. Experts have radiocarbon dated it to around 645AD, only a few years after the death of the prophet Muhammad. It is quite possible that the writer may actually have known Muhammad or heard him speak. This is a significant historical discovery.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021
So where was this priceless document discovered? It was in a library in Birmingham, UK. Somehow it got from the Middle East to The Midlands (West).
Birmingham, England's second city, is best known as one of the centres of the Industrial Revolution. It's a vast conurbation of decaying industrial sites which once housed noisy foundries and factories, particularly in the Black Country, the area to the west of the city.
Its inhabitants, known as Brummies, speak with a curious lazy drawl of an accent (A496352). Perhaps their most famous export of recent years is Ozzy Osbourne, who became a reality show star on MTV with his dysfunctional family.
Heavy Metal music is another of Birmingham's inventions. As well as Ozzy's Black Sabbath, bands like Judas Priest and half of Led Zeppelin hailed from the area, as well as such lighter alternatives as The Moody Blues, Traffic, The Move and the Electric Light Orchestra.
It's also the birthplace of HP Sauce, Cadbury's chocolate and Bird's Custard - the original custard factory site now serving as an arts venue.
Which brings us back to the Koran. If this is really the oldest surviving written record, then maybe, just maybe, it is Birmingham itself which is the birthplace of that religion.
Was the text actually referring to the Mecca Bingo Hall in Kingstanding:
http://goo.gl/maps/PRijH
...or the Medina halal supermarket in Lozells Road?
http://goo.gl/maps/Y5HK7
You decide.
Korrang!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 22, 2015
I like "Black Sabbath." I also liked Sharon Osbourne's singing in the recording of "Missa Gaia." [Sorry about the topic drift. I'll try to behave. ]
If Birmingham might be the birthplace of Islam, are its residents ready for the annual Hadj of the faithful?
Korrang!
Icy North Posted Jul 22, 2015
They'll flock to the University minaret:
http://goo.gl/maps/FkMzq
Korrang!
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Jul 22, 2015
This is news. I hope it will lead to interest, productive interfaith dialogue, and good things for both UK Muslims and Brummies.
New manuscripts are always a fun find. Keeps academics in tea and canned goods.
Korrang!
bobstafford Posted Jul 22, 2015
It will cause trouble as the religious leaders may cause trouble to get it, this is a highly significant document and fundamentalists may be prepared to kill to get it.
Korrang!
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jul 22, 2015
I'd be interested to know does this earliest copy contradict anything in the normal Quran. Since it is older it would take precedence.
Something similar happened when Ireland's Chester Beatty came across a fragment of one of the gospels and it turned out to be oldest known copy. They had to revise the Revised Standard Bible as a result.
Korrang!
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Jul 22, 2015
What did they have to revise on the RSV that time?
Considering the method of transmission for the Quran, I doubt there'd be any big surprises, but it would be fascinating to see what turns up.
Considering the messy proliferation of early Christian texts (and the wholesale purging that went on later...), it's really amazing how consistent the basic New Testament texts are.
Korrang!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 22, 2015
"New manuscripts are always a fun find. Keeps academics in tea and canned goods." [Dmitri]
If it precedes other versions, wouldn't it be an *old* manuscript?
Korrang!
Icy North Posted Jul 22, 2015
I just watched the BBC TV news, and they implied that this document fragment seems to support the text in use today, rather than contradict it.
Korrang!
Recumbentman Posted Jul 23, 2015
Pity about the Cadbury's. Can't bear the stuff. There's not enough cocoa in it to meet EU regulations, so it can't be sold as 'chocolate' outside GB & Ireland.
http://eucenter.wisc.edu/chocolate/Students/ChocolateBattle.htm
Korrang!
Icy North Posted Jul 23, 2015
I prefer the stronger stuff too, but it's a bit snobbish to seek to ban it for that reason. It's chocolate. It's just milkier than the others - for those who like that sort of thing.
But it funded some useful plundering of antiquities in the 1920s, and that can't be wrong, can it?
Korrang!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 23, 2015
I like Cadbury's chocolate, but it's not the same as the stuff you find in GB, owing to an agreement by which Hershey's of Pennsylvania manufactures Cadbury for the North American market.
Korrang!
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Jul 23, 2015
The Hershey's chocolate I tasted in America tasted like soap to me.
I believe that American chocolate uses sour cream in the process instead of milk, giving it quite a different flavour.
Korrang!
Recumbentman Posted Jul 23, 2015
OK, Cadbury's chocolate tastes like lard to me.
Flame war!
Korrang!
Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor Posted Jul 23, 2015
I eat German chocolate, which I get at Aldi's. And I live in Pennsylvania now, home of Milton Hershey.
Korrang!
paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant Posted Jul 23, 2015
"The Hershey's chocolate I tasted in America tasted like soap to me." [Gnomon]
That's only fitting, as soap tastes like chocolate to me.
[Just kidding! ]
Korrang!
You can call me TC Posted Jul 24, 2015
Not quite sure how we got on to chocolate from the Koran, but for my I can't eat dark chocolate. I don't like it, and it certainly doesn't like me.
However, I think I can see a way round the problem of Cadbury's being banned in Europe - we don't call it "Chocolat" (French) or Chocolade (Flemish - I think), but we call it Chocolate. That's a different spelling. A different word.
Anyway - I can get it from the English Shop in Cologne any time.
Key: Complain about this post
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Korrang!
- 1: Icy North (Jul 22, 2015)
- 2: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 22, 2015)
- 3: Icy North (Jul 22, 2015)
- 4: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Jul 22, 2015)
- 5: bobstafford (Jul 22, 2015)
- 6: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 22, 2015)
- 7: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Jul 22, 2015)
- 8: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 22, 2015)
- 9: Icy North (Jul 22, 2015)
- 10: Recumbentman (Jul 23, 2015)
- 11: Icy North (Jul 23, 2015)
- 12: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 23, 2015)
- 13: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 23, 2015)
- 14: Gnomon - time to move on (Jul 23, 2015)
- 15: Recumbentman (Jul 23, 2015)
- 16: Bald Bloke (Jul 23, 2015)
- 17: Baron Grim (Jul 23, 2015)
- 18: Dmitri Gheorgheni, Post Editor (Jul 23, 2015)
- 19: paulh, vaccinated against the Omigod Variant (Jul 23, 2015)
- 20: You can call me TC (Jul 24, 2015)
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