h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This is an awkward topic, these days, as society has become 'more secular' in approach.
As 'a Believer', I don't think that God is either male or female. As He created both, why should he favour one over the other.
The references to 'He', 'Father', etc. is to my understanding, a language issue. Calling God 'it', is not considered respectful.

God has certainly created men and women with different characteristics.
ie. shape, build, hormones etc. It is clear that women are 'designed' to bear children, and the corresponding weaknesses lead to more mercy being shown to them, overall.

He has also put "love & mercy" between man & wife which has great benefit to society with strong family relations.
Any belief ( or non-belief ) or action which 'undermines' this blessing, is highly undesirable, and will have a detrimental effect on the whole of society.

Concluding, God's mercy does not 'discriminate', but we are ourselves, our own worst enemies, when we refuse to accept God's wisdom & blessings.

Hi Warner,

You may feel that your God does not discriminate against Women, but maybe you should read your Bible a t bit more.

Here are just a few examples os discrimination:
http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/women/long.html

Matholwch .

And given your declared interest in islam what does the Quran say?

Well it doesn't come right out, like the Bibledoes, and place a monetary value on human life, male and female. But it does compare the value of men and women from a financial point of view.

Allah chargeth you concerning (the provision for) your children: to the male the equivalent of the portion of two females, and if there be women more than two, then theirs is two-thirds of the inheritance, and if there be one (only) then the half. -- Quran 4:11

... unto the male is the equivalent of the share of two females. -- Quran 4:176

And the Quran tells us just how much we should trust a woman's testimony: it's worth half that of a man's.

And call two witness from among your men, two witnesses. And if two men be not at hand, then a man and two women. -- Quran 2:282
So praised be Jesus and Muhammed (peanut butter and jelly be upon them)! The Bible and the Quran agree: a woman is worth half as much as a man.

Hmmm... I'm sure glad I'm not a woman

Matholwch .

>>a woman is worth half as much as a man.<<
That's your interpretation and opinion. It's not mine. And I'm sure it's not Almighty God's, either.
It is a well known proverb that "We are our own worst enemy". Our desires and temptation are the main cause of mankind's downfall. Of course "Pride comes before a fall", also. So we think we know better than God

Money is but a system. The guidance from God concerning finance, does not seek to cause disadvantage to anybody. There are millions of satisfied Muslim women in the world, who's husbands or families cherish and generously provide for them. It is a man's duty to provide for his wife 100% of her requirements. If a woman would rather work than "stay at home", she is quite entitled to, and all her earnings are her own personal wealth.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
I think women should have a MORE respected position in society, such as "retiring earlier", "ladies first" and married women not having to attend job-centres, more ladies being able stay at home looking after their children, if they want to etc. More families than ever are breaking down resulting in hardship and psychological damage. Children no longer tend to respect their parents or elders and those in authority.
This is what happens when we turn away from OUR GOD, and think the welfare state has an answer to everything. It doesn't. It's good, yes, but will it last in its present form as finance gets tighter?
We're all losing out in this "blind" western understanding of man = woman. I see in the job centres young families with screaming babies and push-chairs - bla bla bla

No, I don't wish to be a woman, either. But not for the reasons that you're implying, but because Almighty God decreed that I am a man. Almighty God DOES give a good deal to women, and fortunate are those of mankind who realise.

If women are the equal of men in God's eyes then why did he let his servant, Paul, propagate the following:

1 Corinthians

14:34 Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law.

14:35 And if they will learn any thing, let them ask their husbands at home: for it is a shame for women to speak in the church.

1 Timothy

2:11 Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection.

2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.

2:13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.

2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

And these examples are mild compared to their treatment in the old Testament where God actually commands the rape and murder of many innocent women.

Matholwch .

Matholwch,
I believe the Bible and Qur'an are of Divine origin.
If you are scornful of the Bible and Qur'an, then it's recorded as such ..

Hi Warner,

And I sincerely respect your right to that belief.

However, if you are going to use those sacred texts as evidence in a forum for debate of important, real world subjects you must expect that those of us who are also familiar with them may well question your selective interpretations.

Do you consider it to be scornful to do this?

I was brought up in an old Catholic family and am well-read in the various versions of the Bible and many other ancient religious texts and their many interpretations across history.

When it comes to sexual equality and the position of women, almost none of them bear comparison to the hard won freedoms that women in developed and secular countries have achieved in recent years.

The books of the Christian Bible, especially the Old Testament, and the writings of St.Paul are pretty grim when it comes to women and I would not like to have been a woman under the rule of the early church.

They are considered variously to have been property no better than oxen, to be guilty of a number of crimes simply by the virtue of being female, and the punishments that could be meted out to women are horrible.

The Abrahamic God expressly gave his chosen people the right to enslave and rape women, especially those of other tribes. Two crimes which are considered to be anathema by all right thinking people and which are mostly glossed over in the teachings of his Churches.

It has taken centuries of courageous resistance to break this unconscionable attitude in our society, and that battle is not yet over. It is not helped by the pronouncements of backward priests, ministers, rabbis and imams in this regard.

Where do you stand on the issue of equality? Do women deserve to be treated as respected equals or would you have them as submissive slaves as required by your sacred texts?

Matholwch .

Matholwch, I repeat:
"There are millions of satisfied Muslim women in the world, whose husbands or families cherish and generously provide for them.<<
Go to a religious forum and ask them why they're happy. Don't bother me about it, please. If you don't believe in the authenticity of the Scriptures, it is noted and recorded.

Warner,

"There are millions of satisfied Muslim women in the world, whose husbands or families cherish and generously provide for them."

And your empirical evidence for this is?

I have lived in muslim countries like South Yemen and Turkish Cyprus and my observations were that these women had little choice. The price of rebellion for them and their children was just too high.

You speak from the position of the dominant sex about cultures where your sex [and I am assuming here that you are male] holds all the cards in politics, in religion, in the law and in the family.

Note that we are going beyond the bounds of religion now in this discussion and onto actual social equality.

In the completely islamic cultures which you speak so proudly of there is no equality.

Matholwch .

Have you read both?
Are you talking about the Christian Bible?
You can't believe both are true if you believe The New Testament.

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but you started it, this is your journal entry