h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

If God experienced all time simultaneously, He wouldn't be able to differentiate between someone who was evil for the first half of their life, then repented and was a reformed character for the second, or someone who started out good and innocent then went "off the rails" for the second half of their life. Most Christian factions agree that God would treat these people differently...

[squeezes the ]
Is the present a coffee maker?
Do I win the prize?

The whole point is that while God is omnicient, and probably omnipotent, he(it} doesn't care! He knows everything, river source and out flow, and could move the whole river if he wanted to, but he doesn't get involved. We have absolute freedom, and absolute responsiblilty. For all practical purposes we are on our own, unless we sin. Then he cares, and we are cast into hell.

It's a microwave oven and chrque book and pen!

I suppose it's about exploring the different ways God could be all-knowing and we be free...

Zaphod, you missed my point... This interpretation of God precludes the Christian concept of redemption, as from His viewpoint He cannot tell if you sin, then repent, or if you sin, repent and sin again without further repentance.

except that relates to the idea of a Second Coming and a Final Judgement..doesn't it?

Obviously not

What logic is there in saying that if God experienced all time at once, he wouldn't know which time was which? We experience different points in space at once, but we can distinguish between them, can't we?

The fact that I can see 0.5m to my left, 0.25m to my left, directly in front of me, 0.25m to my right, and 0.5m to my right all at the same time doesn't stop me distinguishing between whether a pen is 0.5m to the left of me or 0.5m to the right of me. So why would the idea that God can see 1500BCE, 300CE, 2006CE, and 2015CE all at the same time stop him from distinguishing whether an event is happening in 1500BCE or in 2006CE? Why wouldn't he be able to tell whether a person is being bad in 2006CE and good in 2015CE (assumably with some hard effort observable somewhere inbetween) or is being good in 2006CE and is being bad in 2015CE?

Also, referring back to the article itself now, it is claimed that this would restrict our free will. But what is this suggestion based on? How does somebody observing what you do stop you from choosing whether you do it?
Suppose that you had cornflakes for breakfast yesterday, and I happen to know this. Does the fact that I know it mean that you did not make the choice to have them? Suppose I go back in time two days, but do not interact with you at all. Then I will know that you will have cornflakes tomorrow (from my point of view). Does my retaining that knowledge while having gone back in time suddenly stop it from being your free will to choose to eat cornflakes?
That is all that is being suggested by the timeless omniscient God theory. It seems to us like He knows what will occur before it happens, but from His point of view, it's all already happened (or all still happening, to be precise), and he's just watching, and isn't interfering with our free will any more than someone who reads a book about Roman history is interfering with the free will of Julius Caesar.
Of course, most of the time it's not very helpful to view God in this way, as our ability to understand what it would be like to be a timeless being is very limited (I can hold this 'observing' concept in my head, but I get a bit lost when I start trying to imagine what it would be like for such a being to be actually doing things, making decisions, assumably reaching his conclusions at the same time he starts to ask the questions, always having been able to see the results of anything he's decided to do, and so on, I start to get confused) which I assume is why the concept of how God can predict the future is never brought up in the Bible, which tends not to give more information than is necessary. Knowing how God perceives time, it must be acknowledged, isn't particularly necessary or useful for humans.

manwiththemasterplan, re: "What logic is there in saying that if God experienced all time at once, he wouldn't know which time was which? We experience different points in space at once, but we can distinguish between them, can't we?"

That's a fallacious argument, as the two things aren't equivalent. If you said "I can see these four things all in the same place simultaneously and yet I can tell them apart" that would be a valid argument, but as you couldn't it probably wouldn't, if you see what I mean...?

Experiencing "all time at once" is equivalent to "experiencing all space as a single point". There would be no left or right...

Peet, you are proceeding from the assumption that God is a man - limited as we are in how he can see/perceive things. I can't see four things all in the same place simultaneously, and neither can you. However, God can.

"can't see four things all in the same place simultaneously, and neither can you."

And yet we were made in His image...

What a cop-out of a counter argument.

If I took a photograph of you, it would be 'made in your image'. It would not, however, be able to do everything that you can.

-G

Yes, but that image, or likeness, was flawed at the Fall. In our resurrection state, where everything has been put right better than it was before, I believe we shall have amazing abilities, including that of being able to see 4 things occupying the same space.

dd x

I think possibly a key concept to remember in thinking about what it might be like for God in any respect, is freedom - God is said to be completely free. We experience time and space as limits on our freedom. We are bound to time and space, indeed. God, however, isn't. I wonder whether this freedom with respect to time and space has an impact on our understanding. For instance, Peet said to be simultaneously aware of all time would mean a single point without differentiation. I don't think it is admissible to place such logical restrictions upon God and his awareness. Physicists say the laws of physics break down before the Planck moment (or something) - it seems reasonable to say that it's the same with God. The further you press into God, the more things like time and space and logic take on new resonances, the old earth-bound ways we struggle with fading into insignificance.

Old monk said to young monk: When I die I will come back and tell you what it's like.

Old monk dies. Appears to young monk in a dream.

Young monk: Qualiter? (What's it like?)
Old monk: Totaliter aliter! (Completely different!)

We are like God in respect of being made 'in his image and likeness'. If you think that means you can understand him, think again - we don't even fully know ourselves, let alone understand ourselves - never mind the one who made us.