h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/publicinfo/speeches/sp_08-09-03.html
A. Kennedy from the US Supreme Court.
A speech that makes a lot of sense.
A Kennedy speaking against the push for imprisoning by minimum mandatory sentences based on justice, cost and race.

The current administration is pushing for mandatory minimum sentances and has reportedly been keeping track of judges records.
The US currently jails 1 out of 143 citizens compared to 1 out of 1000 persons in England, Germany, France, Italy.

are you sure about those figures Abbi? Does that mean for every 143 people in the US there is 1 in jail?

I am sure it's on the page (link)for the supreme court and it is listed as a speech of Suprme Court Justice Kennedy.

It could be a misprint,
or he could have his facts wrong,
it could be an intruder on their site.

It's the whole point of his speech to the American lawyers.

I do not think they answer email there
I suppose I could find somewhere else to write and ask.
I do know for the last decades it has been a topic of concern that we imprison more of our citizens than any other "freedom" loving democratic nation. We also put more to death than any other freedom loving democracy.

I would love for it to be wrong.
Maybe it is.

Amnesty International has those figures I will look there to recheck. It has been a big complaint with them for decades.
You can read for yourself in the article but I'll post another link when I find it.

One in 143? Sweet Jesus I hope not! I wouldn't walk the streets at anytime, not for fear of crime, but for fear of jail.

http://hrw.org/backgrounder/usa/incarceration/

http://www.csmonitor.com/2003/0818/p02s01-usju.html

The first link is to pie charts and racial inequality.
It also adresses drug incarcerations and makes a big point of 3 strikes and it's madatory jail.

I do not think the law did what was intended.
The violent offenders are still let out ot make room for non-violent ones.

The second link is a short article from CS Monitor news.
The emphasis is more on race.
Those figures are much higher 1 in 17 for some groups

There is a move for more private prisons also.
I cannot help but see dollar signs for someone.

They can say crime has gone down but it has helped to break social services and society. These figures make for a lot of broken families and lost children in the system. The domino social cost is much higher than for imprisonment.

Still looks like bad news.
There is not a lot of direct info on the numbers at any given time. I am confused about whether it is lifetime of a person they are talking about.

What could be an alternative for incarceration?

I do not know but new ways.
Maybe...
More home arrests especially for intact family situations.
The costs to children whose parents are jailed are enourmous. Seems like the money could be used more efficiently with less disruption to the innocents. Why should children in no danger at home be put into dangerous situations because of what the parents may have done and are unlikely to repeat under house arrest? The kids go to foster care, new schools or institutions which breeds more problesm at a large cost. They stay at home but are put on welfare in many cases.

More restitution being paid would be a better consequence of some actions.

When a breadwinner can work at home their family can stay together and be a support. They can be given medications and checked on at home. They can be drug tested at home. They can go to school at home. The family health will be monitored and supported rather than destroyed. They can get suprise security checks and be back in jail at the slightest violation. A social worker could be assigned along with a jailer and still be cheaper.

More small half way houses would be especially beneficial to the mentally ill which are locked up at alarming rates.
Stats say drugs and bad checks which are predominantly women are the majority of cases. Seems both could be monitored outside of jail as well as inside. Articles always mention there are illegal substances in jails.

We still have the problem of violent offenders being let go to make room for non-violent offenders.

We are losing a huge amount of voters.When the racial figures are terribly lopsided and effective in eliminating minority voters

We still have a drug problem!

We have a huge ID theft problem. Which can be instigated from prisons when they used to sell magazines and servicesfrom what have read in the past.

I do not see much opportunity to learn how to affect change on a large scale across all lines if this current way continues. I am also uneasy about prisons becoming private corporations.

Conviction and imprisonment rates... Spend a lifetime in the United States, and you have a bit over a three percent chance of being convicted of a crime (1/32).

http://www.manythings.org/voa/03/030505ta_t.htm

"The Bureau of Justice Statistics prepared the report. The report shows that, as of last year, one in every thirty-two people in the nation had been found guilty of a crime. The United States has a national population of two-hundred-ninety-million people."

"About twelve percent of African American males between the ages of twenty and thirty-four were in prison or jail last year. By comparison, four percent of Hispanics, and less than two percent of white males, were behind bars."

One in 32 guity of a crime!!!

Do they include speeding tickets & the like, since this might push it up? If not, these stats are horrendous!!!!

zdt*guilty as charged*

Things like speeding tickets are, in the United States, typically considered a violation, which is not the same as a crime. "Crime" is understood to mean misdemeanor or felony, not a low level violation. Not showing up in court or not paying your speeding tickets, now that's a crime.

So i would think the last two possibly inflate the figures a bit, wonder by how much? How many "real" criminals actually ARE there (ie: nasty horrid people who do nasty horrid things, who "deserve" to be locked away in nasty horrid places or killed?)

zdt (with bee in bonnet, & charming it looks too)

*see "land of the free" thread*

A majority are non violent repeat offenders.
The chart breaks down the types of offences.
It was difficult to find the figures, the press was begining to write about that fact.
I found the Supreme Court Justices speech on the topic easier.
It was refreshing to read.

I thought people without money are more likely to spend time locked up before a conviction or plea bargain. If so, the number jailed is far higher than the number convicted.

Women are in jail mainly for bad checks, other money fraud, prostitution,drugs, theft, fewer for violence. Poor people can still go to jail for not being able to pay bills. It took a long time for the womens babies to be able to be born in jail. In the better facilities they are kept for a few weeks or months.

Car thefts and ID theft is growing rapidly in our area

The more hardened criminals (or the three timers which are not always the meanest) lose their right to vote if I understand correctly. This has begun to affect the numbers of minorities with voting privledges. The added expenses for the support of the families left behind are often paid for by the tax payers when the bread winner is locked up.

The schools are begining to send their problem students before judges.
The court system is over worked. The worst part is there has never been an adequate sytem to keep the violent offenders locked up long term. They are let out all the time due to over crowding

http://www.westword.com/issues/1999-08-26/feature2.html
special series
At a time when violent-crime rates have been declining for years, why is it that the prison population keeps going up, up, up?

http://www.westword.com/extra/insiders.html

*********
Just placing links here for myself.
I am thinking there is a good article in all of this.
Back with more.

http://www.latimes.com/news/nationw...ld/nation/la-na-punish24jun24.story

Yay! Supreme Court Justice A. Kennedy and the American Barr Ass
This is a legacy of Reagans that needs to be balanced.

The latest figures on the number of Americans locked up on any given day are one in thirty-two. They were just published so I
wanted to clarify the over all rate.

Wish I had the link handy but I lost it while h2g2 was not working for meit was from Gov sources

One in thirty two???? Where the hell do they put them all? (yes, i know, prison, but logistically with that percentage surely you would need a prison on every street corner!)

As an experiment, since you are American, how many people do you know personally who have been locked up for criminal offences?

I know 1 (manslaughter)

2 (drugs)

So, three people i know have been jailed long term.

But i am acquainted with a LOT of others, i am only listing people i have personally met & know well.Also not counting overnight stays for drunken stuff or awaiting a trial for minor things, after which they were released. Do those count in these statistics?

zdt

I just lost IM again
The power was off for hours and my computer has lost it's mind to some degree. Hopefully it will straighten out.
Hope this will post after all the hootoo problems lately.
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I do not know anyone in jail or that has been long term.

The exception would be as a child. The adoptive parents of my brother spent far too little time locked up for his murder. The mother less than a year. The man spent no time in but later raped her and spent a while in for that crime.

I could be forgetiing somebody distant but I do not think so.

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I became interested in the numbers Terri, higher than any other free* Nation.
The prison system has spent much of the money they formerely used for kids and welfare and social programs,healthcare on jails and courts now.

The system is turning private because there are not enough public dollars to house and care for them. They do get healthcare inside, many better than on the outside. The children of the parents in prisons are the often supported by the social systems.

I doesn't sound good to make punishisment a corporation.
There are sales conventions and lots of high tech stuff a whole cottage industry is growing. The construction, upkeep of the buildings along is very high.

It's important to note it depends what race you are as to the actual figures, some races are jailed at 1 in 17 depending on who is counting.I really like what Justice Kennedy (our highest court) and many lawyers have been saying about needed reforms.

I think people whom are not directly involved need to help push for reforms because they are easily forgotten to most of us. The lawyers really have been trying to push their views on what are abuses and failures and excesses are. Unless articles or PBS, other programs are aired you would not know.

I really admire the group working to review death penalty cases who has freed a number of wrongfully convicted persons.

I mostly get riled when rapist and murderers go free while non violent people are locked up. I think the violent should be held to the maximum and the non-violent held to a different but more useful reforming sort of accountability.

Restitution attempts where ever possible and harsh ones for the big money scammers. A persons life saving being wiped out by somebody that has multi-millions does not equal a punishment if they can easily pay it back.
Yeah, Let them contribute to the building fund!