h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

helloooo mr flag, are you still around?
people on the pafc site are asking why they cant get hold of flags...

For those interested

I noticed the problem with Mr Flag's web-site and emailed them.

They told me that they are changing servers, its all gone pear shaped, but they hope to resume normal service in a day or so.

So - don't panic

Devonian,

I would suggest that you do not push the pafc connection too hard, because if it is observed that hundreds of Argyle fans are waving Devon Flags, it will be seen as an Argyle Flag and not a Devon Flag, regardless of what we call it. We could therefore end up with more than half of the county rejecting it as a valid Devon Flag. This would leave us in the situation of having an unofficial (but recognised) Argyle Flag, but no universally accepted Devon Flag. It would certainly be shunned by Exeter City and Torquay United supporters. Having said that, we would not want it to be recognised as an Exeter or Torquay Flag either. Please think about it. We wouldn't want to find ourselves back at square one, having to vote on a 'universally acceptable' Devon Flag because the first choice had been hijacked. I hope it is not too late already.

Plymouth Exile

Thats a good point, i'll start talking about it on the exeter city and torquay sites aswell.I was just using the pafc message board as a useful way of reaching lots of people with devon interests, it worked out quite well. I'll try the same thing on the afore mentioned team sites too. But i do feel a bit daft since Mr flag stopped selling anything, they'll just have to make plenty of flags when they go back online eh.
cheers

It appears that Mr Flag's website is up and running again.

The Devon Flag is now shown (with broader black band) under the Regional Flags section. [We seem to have lost our 'front page' status in all this - but anyway....]

I will update my website over the weekend, and include a link (hey - I am NOT on commission).

As to contacting ECFC and TUFC supporters - my view is don't.

I think it will be a green rag to a bull. Certainly the only real opposition to the proposed designs on my website came from dyed in the wool Exeter City supporters who would not countenance green.

Obviously not all soccer supporters are that short-sighted, but I guess many of those on the supporters web-sites will be.

I think we should look to promote it first to the Rugby following population (where the Devon colours are obviously okay), and to those more broad minded than one-eyed.

I'm glad the cross design won the vote and have been trying to access the Mr Flag site to order some, but I think they're having troubles again. Hope the tourist shops soon catch on to the Devon flag. But one thing puzzles me. Doesn't there have to be any official recognition for a flag representing Devon.

Cheers
Deni

Deni,

Welcome to the Flag debate. I originally thought that we would need official recognition for a Devon Flag, but I then discovered that the well known Cornish (St Piran) Flag is unofficial. So as long as ours becomes popularly recognised as the Devon Flag, that is all that seems to matter.

Mr. Flag does still have the Flag on the site. The URL is:-

http://www.mrflag.com/display_product.asp?id=1172

If we can all spread the word around that the Flag exists, it should quickly become established as The Devon Flag.

Plymouth Exile

Does anyone know anything at all about devon county rugby club? i cant find anything about it on the internet, they only get mentioned when playing cornwall for the tamar cup. To be honest i'd never even heard of devon rugby club before searching for it on the net. I'd like to try and get hold of a replica shirt from them if they have any since my dad used to play for cornwall im sure it'd get up his nose

Devonian,

Here is a link to Devon Rugby Union

http://www.rfu.com/clubs/index.cfm/fuseaction/hm.Home/grou_select/16

It also links through to the many Devon Rugby teams (Exeter Chiefs and Plymouth Albion both being in National Division 1, but there are many more included)

There are other links if you put 'Devon Rugby Union' into your search engine.

For a guernsey.... I think you have to play like a champion first!!!
As for replicas - dunno.

Having just recieved my new Devon Flag, I am thrilled with it, thanks Mr. Flag for doing a quality job, and the black border is just right. I am trying to get sailors at yacht clubs to fly it in Devon starting with my dad at Axmouth. just another way to publicise the flag, and not have it solely associated with PAFC. Mr Flag, is the flag ok for marine use(i.e. salt water safe?

Still working on outlets for bumper stickers....

London Devonish

A couple of points

1) A day or so ago I contacted a website called 'Flags of the World' who seem to record and show flag designs from around the world and I told them about the Devon Flag. I received a nice email saying 'thanks' and they asked me whether I authorised them to put the Deb'n flag on their website (they actually said they would assume I had granted approval unless I said summat else)

As 'Devonian' designed it I suppose it would be good if he okayed this???? (for clarity 'devonian' send me your name etc.... I promise not to pass it onto the D&C Police!)

2) Mr Flag have also indicated that you can register a particular design with The Flag Institute. I suspect the flag institute and mr flag are connected (at least by a common surname in terms of contacts) but are you interested in registering the design - it does sound more official?

As a devoted organised anarchist I am not so bothered myself - especially if it costs money (is that very anarchistic??) - but I thought I would ask you guys.

If so - I suspect I need Devonian's okay - seeing as how he designed it.

Your thoughts??

By the way - I emailed a number of people who voted for the flag and left contact details - and my 'flag' web page received 176 hits in less tha 24 hours.

Now, there's visibility!!

Yeah I think the more distributors we have then the better it is, the only thing that i would like is if they could mention my name as the designer, i believe mr flag have done this now. It may sound vain and quite sad but its nice that when i tell people i designed the devon flag then thay can go see my name on a website what sells it.
As far as registering it, im with you on the "only if its free" idea.
Cheers then, and congratulation for the success of your site

My name is Ryan Sealey and im at university in Aberdeen

I have just seen the Mr Flag front page and the Devon Flag gets centre stage. This is surprising given the war and likely focus on the Union Jack!

Devonian, you do get your name in lights. Well done!

Hi all,

what a complete load of rubbish this flag voting business is!

How can BBC Devon allow itself to be hijacked by Plymouth Argyle football, so called, fans...........

This minority hype comes from a group that bases its so called soccer support on violence and foul language chanting, and who have blatantly "rigged" a situation / vote for there own vile purposes. Perhaps they should go back to Cornwall / Wales with their Kernow and Dragon designs!

I suppose the Green background colour matches the pond life who voted for it!

Our County has a badge, which would look fine sat on one of its primary colours, blue or red.


Real Devonian

Researcher 223548,

BBC Devon was not hijacked by Plymouth Argyle Football Club. As one of the flag designers, I can state categorically that I have very little interest in football, as I am more interested in rugby and cricket. There is a very good reason for the short listed flag designs incorporating the colour green, i.e. we were advised at an early stage that the colours green, white and black were the recognised colours of Devon (note that the Devon County Rugby Team wear green). None of the football teams in Devon represent the whole of Devon, in the same way that the rugby team does. Having said that, there was nothing to stop anyone who wished to, from submitting a design in an alternative colour.

The reason for the red dragon being included in one of the short listed designs had nothing to do with Wales. The person who contributed this design had done some research into symbols used by the ancient kingdom of Dumnonia (the forerunner of Devon), and discovered that the red dragon was one such device. I personally felt that the reason for its use would prove to be a bit too obscure for most Devonians, as it turned out to be.

Concerning the use of the Devon Shield, you will note that two of the designs incorporated this device, but neither was selected as the winner in an open ballot. The final vote was held in as democratic a way as possible, with safeguards being taken to prevent any person voting more than once. If you consider that those who voted were 'pond life', then why did you not take an interest at an earlier stage and ensure that other alternatives were available, or are you saying that you only believe in democracy when the majority happen to agree with you?

If you would care to look back through the messages sent in to this board, you will see that the only 'foul language' has come from your post. What does that tell you? The quicker that some people realise that the world does not revolve around allegiances to football clubs, the better for us all.

Plymouth Exile
(who has no interest in football, or the bad behaviour which often accompanies it)

Just to back up Plymouth Exile I can catagorically state that i too have little interest in football and have never been to watch Plymouth Argyle play. The idea for the Devon flag was to find a design which had universal appeal, and could be flown by those who live in Devon or those with roots or family ties here. The history of Devon and its Celtic Kingdom predecesser has been of interest to many over the years (not just Devonians), and at a time where there is a strong emphasis on regional identity within the UK, we and others thought that Devon should have a symbol that we could all look to and show ourselves as 'not just another English county'. Cornwall have been doing this for years, to great effect, both culturally, and using their flag to identify themselves as a business region (especially tourism)

If you do not like the flag, then I am sorry, and you are under no obligation to use it. This flag has nothing to do with football or any specific club. It just so happens that football supporters use flags quite alot and have taken it up.

Hopefully this summer we will all see our flag all over Devon, representing the County and all its people. We are under no illusion that it is impossible to please everyone,especially with things like design and form. (i too did not vote for this specific design)
We hope everyone will take up this flag whether they voted for it or not, and make it universally accepted throughout the County.

Just to back up Plymouth Exile I can catagorically state that i too have little interest in football and have never been to watch Plymouth Argyle play. The idea for the Devon flag was to find a design which had universal appeal, and could be flown by those who live in Devon or those with roots or family ties here. The history of Devon and its Celtic Kingdom predecesser has been of interest to many over the years (not just Devonians), and at a time where there is a strong emphasis on regional identity within the UK, we and others thought that Devon should have a symbol that we could all look to and show ourselves as 'not just another English county'. Cornwall have been doing this for years, to great effect, both culturally, and using their flag to identify themselves as a business region (especially tourism)

If you do not like the flag, then I am sorry, and you are under no obligation to use it. This flag has nothing to do with football or any specific club. It just so happens that football supporters use flags quite alot and have taken it up.

Hopefully this summer we will all see our flag all over Devon, representing the County and all its people. We are under no illusion that it is impossible to please everyone,especially with things like design and form. (i too did not vote for this specific design)
We hope everyone will take up this flag whether they voted for it or not, and make it universally accepted throughout the County.

London Devonish

I note the comment by our 'Real Devonian' contributor.

When the flag design was being voted on there were a handful of people who made comments that the association with Argyle's colours was too close. Most were much more polite (and contructive) than the posting here.

Sadly, the posting may reflect more on the narrow mindedness of certain sectors of the soccer supporters than anything else.

Sadly this is true for a minority of soccer supporters from each of Devon's clubs. I have seen vitriolic exchanges between supporters of the Grecians and Argyle, and between those of the Gulls and Exeter.

Sadly, it is rather pathetic.

According to this logic any design with Red, or Green, or Blue and Yellow would be objected to by one group or another. Where would we go from there?

Strangely I have never heard criticism of Devon Rugby Union team playing in green and white, although they are based in Exeter. Also the suggestion that the designs have been an Argyle conspiracy are also incorrect. Previous contributors to this discussion have hailed from Barnstaple, Exeter, Axmouth, the South Hams and (yes) Plymouth. None of those seem to have been motivated by such a petty agenda.

The flag has nothing to do with Argyle, and if Argyle supporters have been promoting this as some sort of 'moral' victory they too are being foolishly short-sighted.

The designs have been put forward from people all over Devon (and beyond), and people have voted in their hundreds. The result has been that (1) many designers chose to include green in their designs presumably because it has traditional (non soccer) associations with Devon, and (2) the people selected (ultimately decisively) the winning design.

London Devonish is correct, those who object are under no compulsion to use this flag, or any other.

Hopefully the majority of people are mature enough to see beyond the colours their soccer team wears!!

For Pete's sake....

I have ordered my Flag from mr Flag and will fly it in Ireland where I now live. I have also suggested to Mr Flag that he put the flag in the Celtic Nations section. Galicia is included, and if Galicia is considered a Celtic Nation then so is Devon. I'm so happy Devon finally has its own flag and can't wait to recive it. Has anyone asked Devon County Council if they will fly it on the empty flag pole outside County Hall? I think Pub & Restaurant owners should be encouraged to use it as well as tourism chiefs.