h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

i like the chronicles of prydain by lloyd alexander. what do they never make that into a film?

FABT

why do they never......sorry, left my typing finger in town

FABT

Awix, I don't think the sorcery was supposed to be particularly sorcerous. It's just something that happens, a useful tool for those who can do it. Nothing more than that. Have you read "Belgarath" and "Polgara"? They explain those things a lot more clearly. They could make "Belgarath" into a film, but it'd be at least six hours long and they'd still have to cut bits out of it, so maybe just the first part might be good... say, up to the death of Poledra.

No, that's a really bad place to finish a film... maybe the marriage of Beldaran would be a better place to stop.

I've got the complete set courtesy of an uncle's beneficience (and lack of shelf space). I don't know, I think if you're going to use magic as a story element (and I know the Eddings distinguish between sorcery, magic, demonology, etc), then you've got to use it as this mystical, dangerous, unpredictable art. Eddings' sorcery is just a bit too mundane and super-power-ish (rather like the witchcraft in Charmed), the magic in Harry Potter *sometimes* verges on the twee. I think the less you see, the more effective it is. Do you remember the old Robin of Sherwood TV series? A very mystically-themed show but because the magic wasn't splashed all over the screen all the time it retained a sense of mystery and wonder.

And if we're going to nominate fantasy series to be made into films I'd be interested to see what they'd make of the SF/fantasy crossover Saga of Exiles by Julian May...

Ooooh

How about Diamond Mask then? That would be a challenge I think.

shazz

I think the mystery and impact of magic don't depend on how much it's used but rather how it's used. Sometimes it is the intention of the author that magic be seen as nothing more than another tool for the people who can do it, and that can sometimes work. Robert Jordan did it - we certainly see a great deal of use of the One Power in his Wheel of Time series. The Belgariad used sorcery a great deal, but the Will and the Word was definitely secondary to other skills in fixing the majority of problems. But that might be because of the threat of its use - Polgara didn't have to resort to sorcery to keep peace in Arendia during her centuries living there because on various occasions when she had done, the stories had become so wild that nobody wanted to push her. The stupid ones did though. I did rather like her idea of persuading Duke Garteon III of Asturia to cooperate with her by giving him a stomach ulcer.

But I'm drifting out off topic, and I can't remember what the point was, so I'll stop now.

I think we were discussing whether or not magic has to be mystical or not to work as a story element.

(Sorry, boss - I've only read the Saga of Exiles... have only a nodding acquaintance with Intervention etc)

sorry, was napping, I've lost the plot a bit. what do you mean by mystical? and are we talking magic as in a spell or a force or something that isnt controlled like in Toms Midnight Garden, they never really think about 'why' they just get on with it.

I'll try and pay more attention

FABT

Well, by mystical I mean something truly otherworldly and unpredictable, eldritch forces, the ever-present risk of delving into matters of which man was not meant to know, drawing upon the primal forces of creation... a sense of mystery.

Whereas a lot of the time in HP magic just seems like cookery - add this to that, then do *this*, and lo and behold your spell has worked.

And the sorcery in Eddings is rather like a super-power, there's no real mystery or sense of the unknown about it. To treat magic like a tool or skill this way surely diminishes it?

damn, just deleted a pot by accident

i'd said.

thanks for explanation

i think the sucess of how magic is treated depends on two things. context and the quality of the writing.

i agree that HP is a bit like a delia smith book. however, unlike most of the population i dont really think H is about magic. maybe because thats wht inside my head all the time anyway the magic just seems normal to me. HP, in my opinion, is about Harry. about being lonely, about friendship and about growing up. the method by which magic is achieved is irrelevant, it's just part of the world.
therefore i think this counts as a sucess.

by contrast the magic in the sword in the stone I found deeply boring and off putting and i ended up missing out big sections of the book becuase i just couldnt get past how crap i thought it was.

have you read never where by niel gahman or whoever wrote it. cant remember. i like that. no poncing around. magic should be an intrinsic part of the story for me to be convinced.

or there's some books, there's about eight of them. let me think. lioness rrampant is one of them, i think they wer by tamora pierce and bout a woman caled alana and her brother thom and then the second four were about someopne else. magic was very different there but stil worked.

the thing about the magic i found worst in HP is just that it doesnt seem very well thought out/logical. H is supposed to be really powerful but all the kids seem about the same. if you study hard you are good at it and if you are clumsy likie nevielle then you are not. just like in real school. the only exception and this is where it falls down becuase they bnever make enough of it is that H can do think swihtout a spell. some of the other kids apparently coulsd too before comeing to school but they dont seem to do so later. H does things when he gets upset. that seems much more like a good reason why H is a powerful wizard, becuase he can do things without the preset spells that others need. it;s like being able to play piano without being taught. and then there's the people like freg and george and also the old gang of sirius, james and remus who are all v. good wizards but in another different way. i wish J.K. would get her story straigh. I'm willing to wait a bit linger for a more thought aout book.

and i have no intention of checking this post for errors or seeing if it made any sense becuase I'll only delte it like i did the last one.

FABT

Errors? What are errors?

I think magic is intrinsic to the HP recipe - Harry Potter, Trainee Wizard has a lot more appeal than Harry Potter, Stage School Brat or Harry Potter, Apprentice Accountant. I can understand why the magic is 'safe' in the HP books given that they're aimed at a younger readership.

I saw the TV version of Neverwhere, but not the book. Though I do have some of Neil Gaiman's other stuff: the complete Sandman, some Black Orchid, a short story about Superman and Green Lantern being sucked into Hell... I think I've got his Babylon 5 episode on tape somewhere, too...