h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Now, who was it who said "Ontogeny recapitulates phylogeny"? (i.e., the developing fetus goes through a fish- then chicken- [etc.] phase on its way to 'becoming' human, along the classic evolutionary lines.)


Paz

Getting back to the topic or worship in schools....

(Oh...but before I begin, I'd like to say that all I'm doing here is sharing the experience of an atheist parent with others in a similar position. I may be prejudiced in my atheism - I happen to believe that I'm POSTjudiced - but if so mea culpa. I'm not at all interested - in *this* conversation - in judgements as to the validity of my views. I only mention this because otherwise I could see a certain pattern emerging in the debate).

Anyhoo...My children (boy and girl, both aged 7) attend an alleged non-faith school. I understand that many such schools now give only lip service to Christianity. This school, however, seems to do rather more than that. Last year the local council passed a motion "affirming the value of Christianity in schools." (!!!!!!!) Their report cards refer to their knowledge of biblical stories. They sing (and enjoy!) songs about 'Lord' and 'Jesus'. Multiculturalism is token at best. (In contrast to their nursery, where all but they and one other child were muslim, and the staff muslim and sikh. The endless round of parties for Eid, Succoth, Christmas, Diwalli etc. were a joy!). Much though I regard all this as a load of superstitious tosh (mea culpa) which should not be funded from taxes, I have chosen not too withdraw them from assemblies (apparently we're not allowed to opt out of RE!), remembering my own experience of Jewish children at my school being paraded in to the front (never the back!) of the hall for the non-religious bit. Of course, non of this would be an issue in countries with a constitutional separation of church and state, but I am rather aggrieved that my children have no opt out and that the teaching of Christian stories eats into valuable education time. (I've nothing against opt ins. If you think Jesus wants your weans for sunbeams, send 'em to Sunday School! My parents did - but I think it might have been because they wanted an opportunity to have sex.)

OK - so none of this is a big deal really. They're sensible kids, and I'm sure they'll grow out of all these stories in the same way that I did. The problem, though, is in the here and now. My son especially has bought into the whole idea. Every so often, he asks me whether I believe in God etc. etc. I give him the honest answer that I don't and I think that the stories at school are just made up, but that other people believe them. This disappoints him. He wants to agree with the daddy he loves - but presumably doesn't want to disagree with his teachers and peers. (Curiously, he *does* seem to have got the message on evolution - which is a much harder concept to grasp than divine creation).

I'll admit that I have opted out on one issue with my daughter. She's at a stage of being frightened of death (some older kids started telling nasty stories about suicide and burial, which gave her nightmares). The school answer is about heaven. The best I can manage is "well, some people say you go to heaven, and some people say that you come back again..." All of which I also regard as tosh, of course. Yet the atheist answer - when yer dead yer dead - is scary for a child. Even many adults have difficulty adjusting to it! The best I can manage is to give her a big hug and tell her she isn't going to die. Any ideas on this one?

You can opt out of RE as well as the religious component of assembly. Having said that, it is not something I have done with mine - it is likely to do more harm than good.

Like you, I suspect, I wouldn't mind RE if it were open minded and balanced rather than dogmatic. And it is difficult to know how dogmatic it is, but my 6 year old is coming home with some funny ideas - that the Noah's ark story was true for example.

There is information on the web on what on what should be in RE

http://www.nc.uk.net/index.html and follow the RE link
and
http://www.qca.org.uk/7823.html - althogh most links seem to be broken.

although how much relation this bears to lessons on the ground I don't know.


It wouldn't be so bad if a sufficiently large number of pupils could opt out together, but the schools are not allowed to offer opt outs or in any other way solicit evasion of worship. I am tempted to try to organise a mass opt out as a parent. I will let you know if I do.

Ta for the info. However, I live in Scotland and I suspect the situation may be different here, since the Orange/Green divide has an unfortunate influence on politics.

For a start, we have between 30%-50% state-funded Catholic denominational schools. (At both primary and secondary levels!!). Only last week the Catholic church launched a High Court challenge to the legality of 'shared campus' primary schools - lest the tiny Tims associate with wee heathen Huns.

In the end, my solution is, like yours, pragmatic. And I suppose a beliefe in Noah's Ark is no more harmful than in the tooth fairy - provided they grow out of it before they study biology (or dentistry!).

Hi! My two cents worth on something p-c said earlier....



Only by someone who has given the matter little or no thought, I suggest

Then see if you can find a flaw in this argument:

1. God is good.
2. What god says is (morally) "right".

This leads us to two options:

1. What god says is right, because god says it.
2. What god says is right, is right anyway, and god says it because god is good.

If you accept option one, the concept of "god is good" is meaningless because that boils down to "what god says is what god says". Not even the most extreme theologists will accept that, because it destroys any semblance of a moral justification for a religious viewpoint.

Therefore they must accept option two. This of course means, that the "rightness" of morality, and good itself, must exist outside god (and consequently outside religion).