h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Been around the world and found that only stupid people are breeding"

Birth rates in the Western world are decreasing generally, but they're still very high among the poor, uneducated, unwashed, crack-addicted. This makes them one of the fastest-growing voting blocks in democratic nations... if they could find their way to the polls, anyway.

The obvious problem with falling birth rates, as they're finding in Italy right now, is that the aging population no longer has sufficient working population beneath it to support the pension and welfare costs. A falling youth mass and growing geriatric one is not a comfortable situation.

Perhaps the solution is mandatory euthanasia at, say, 75 years.

No, I don't have an answer either but lowering the birth rate will not necessarily help. The problem does not have such a simplistic solution, as with most social issues.

F

This particular social issue will answer itself if we don't do it first, then we'll wish we had....

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

A more considered and detailed response:



And everywhere else in the world?

<mandatory euthanasia at, say, 75 years. >

And the sarcastic bit is, er, the unrealistically high age limit you suggest? Our governments fund current pensioners from the contributions of current workers. So when the former increase in comparison with the latter.... I expect voluntary euthanasia within ten years, becoming mandatory within twenty-five. Starting with the elderly, closely followed by the poor, the unemployed, the poor, the crack-addicted, the poor...?

Blessed be the rich, for they shall inherit the Earth!

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Introducing the topic of Good versus Evil:

MfM(3561):

Matholwch(3565):

MfM(3568):

MfM(3573):

Not having the benefit of a Martian education, MfM, I must admit to some confusion as to what you want to talk about. You introduce topics by the handful, and discard them even faster! This is a cunning Martian plot, isn't it? Who gets to rule the Earth? Will Jeff Goldblum save us with his Apple Mac again?

Pattern-chaser

"expecting it to rain cheese tomorrow"

Having had a night to think it over I suggest, instead of the potentially controversial approach of mandatory euthanasia (poor, sick, elderly, poorish, unwell, middle aged, out of work...) all the government needs to do is encourage something that shortens life expectancy.

Now, what do we know of that shortens life expectancy, is enjoyable and/or addictive (so people don't refuse to take part) and ideally can be taxed heavily to raise additional revenue.

I know ... driving. (there may be other things )

All we do is raise speed limits, outlaw seat belts, air bags, ABS etc and reduce the driving age limit to about twelve. That should work nicely.

I enjoyed 'Independence Day' but the chances of infecting a computer network on Earth with a virus built on a Mac are pretty slim, never mind a network belonging to an alien intelligence.

F

Hi Maw

>Admitting that you do not know is often said to be the first step towards wisdom. For me,the next step to that admission was finding religion, as prior to that I was agnostic.

I do find it hard to fathom how you could go from embracing "The universe is unknowable, mysterious and wonderful" to saying "somebody said this is true so now I believe it". With respect, it seems like a huge step backwards.

>I find it very interesting that so many different people can look at the same things and be subjected to very similar influences and come to such different conclusions. Some people can read the words in the Bible and find them inspiring, uplifting and worthy of further investigation.

Yes, there are many words that are inspiring in the bible, and I have said that often. There are also many words which are so repulsive and disgusting that only the angriest and most hate-filled individual could have come up with them. I believe that we should take the good and leave the bad, as with everything in life. What amazes me is not that anybody finds inspiration in the bible, but that anybody (at least anybody intelligent) can convince themselves it is the word of a god.

> and why do we have to accept that Eve's deeds condemned all of us?

For no reason, it was just the nasty dream of a nasty person. A misogynistic fairy tale, and it deserves to be treated as such.

>That comes over as complete poppycock to me, but if anyone else wants to believe it, they can - just as long as they don't try pushing it on me or anyone else.

Indeed. Although, sadly, the majority of religos cannot seem to help trying to do exactly that.

>It is simply too big and complex for any one person to completely understand it all - or really to do more than scratch the surface.

Agreed wholeheartedly.

>If more people realised this and devoted themselves to improving their understanding of the world, perhaps things would work out more peacefully in the world.

Maybe so, it certainly couldn't do any harm.

Regards

Hi Az

>>I do judge and criticise those who feel that need. That is probably a flaw in me.>>

....And so I will not judge you for your need to judge others. But I will ask you something - does judging and criticizing others make you feel good about yourself? If not, then perhaps your self is trying to tell you something.

Can I ask you a question? If someone told you that he could fly in the air, had invisible wings and was related to fairies - and argued furiously, emotionally and emphatically for that idea - you would still know he was not actually flying in the air, I would hope? You might not think he was a bad person, or even necessarily a stupid person - but for some reason he was convincing himself that, even as he was standing in front of you, he was actually flying in the air - perhaps because in some way he found reality too difficuilt and this allowed him to embrace certain illusions.

You might find yourself in a position of pointing out why he was wrong and even arguing strenuously as to why he was wrong. You would then find that he considered that criticism. He might find you judgemental for not being able to embrace his viewpoint, even though you could see quite clearly that his feet were on the ground.

Now, if he wasn't arguing about it and just wanted to believe that he was flying in the air, I would have no quarrel with him. But if he insisted that he was flying in the air and insisted that we make allowances for that fact, re-routing air traffic and giving him special resources to help him stay aloft - that's when I start to judge and criticise. As I do when people use their religion of choice to try to influence the lives of others and insist that they deserve some sort of special privileges simply because they want to believe what they want to believe.

I believe DNA also once said "all opinions are not created equal". Yes, we all have a right to express our opinions, no we do not have a right to expect others to respect them. Respect the person offering the opinion yes. Respect the opinion, not necessarily.

If I have to be judgemental and critical at times of others illusions, I can live with that - and on second thoughts it is not a flaw, simply something that some people perceive to be a flaw. If that makes me a harsh person, I can live with that too. Pretending that I can see someone flying in the air would definitely not make me feel good about myself. Saying I don't know, you don't know, nobody knows - does. Because it is a statement I make with utter honesty and without any intent to deceive - neither myself or anybody else. It is one of the truest things I have ever said. It might make me seem judgemental to not pretend I can see others flying, but that's ok - at least I am being true.

In conclusion, being as honest and as genuine as I can, even though it makes me vulnerable as a human being - yes, that does make me feel good about myself.

Regards

Albaus,



az

Problem: Not enough workers to support the pensioners.
Solution: More workers, fewer pensioners.

You don't have to _kill_ them, you have to make them work longer. And when that is not enough because there are too many old and sick you'll have to kill them, or bring in furriners. Plenty of countries where they still have too many young people.

I believe I know, you believe you know. You never know, we might both know! More: we might be right. [And just for the pessimists and realists among us: but we're probably wrong. ] This "is a statement I make with utter honesty and without any intent to deceive - neither myself or anybody else." Being honest, in the broadest sense of the word, is probably the most important thing any of us can do. IMO, of course.

Nice posting, Albaus.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Alternatively: somebody believes this, and presented it to me for my consideration. I found it convincing, and so now I believe it too.

Don't subject thought, wisdom and knowledge to the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome.

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Nowadays lying is quite acceptable. It doesn't matter if everyone knows you're lying. Provided no-one can *prove* it, you can continue to proclaim your own verity.

All that you need today is 'deniability'.

Am I alone in my opinion that this says some Very Bad Things about us and our society?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Fathom,
You recently posted this..."I enjoyed 'Independence Day' but the chances of infecting a computer network on Earth with a virus built on a Mac are pretty slim, never mind a network belonging to an alien intelligence"

You don't actually believe that these two things are NOT possible, do you? What do you think you are doing NOW? The semantics in your posts, as in everyones posts, are being analysed and offer an insight into "human" expectations. It is the implementation of the expectations [the future] which is the role we give to Governments.

Hi PC,
Reference your post 3585...... It is not that I do not want to talk about things but more the fact that I want to do things about what we talk about. A consensus of considered opinion can point in the general direction but while we are talking nothing is being done.
Some suggestions are clearly impractical whereas others, no matter how far out or radical they may seem, offer a chance of change, for the better.

To argue/discuss whether Good and Evil are adjectives or nouns is all well and good if you have nothing better to do and abstract debate such as this is very enjoyable and educational. It does diddly squat to make a difference though, in the "real" world.

You ask... "Who gets to rule the Earth?" The Meek, of course [armed with their PCs]....and here I make no distinction in sytems, as it is a horses for courses environment. A united goal will see all available systems being compatible.

Hi Folks,
It is looking as this thread is heading to a conclusion, it being.... Truth Rules. And let us hope that soon it is as ubiquitous as Kilroy was here.

Hi Folks,
It is looking as this thread is heading to a conclusion, it being.... Truth Rules. And let us hope that soon it is as ubiquitous as Kilroy was here.

Then you leave me no alternative - what is Truth?

Pattern-chaser

"Who cares, wins"

Pattern Chaser,

"Then you leave me no alternative - what is Truth?"


In my humble opinion.....the Truth is no alternative!