h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Spiff,

Well, read it last night on the train, trying to look intelligent by telling my travelling companions I was reviewing a paper on comparative approaches to Grammer

Anyway, thought it was very good, covered the subject concisely and with humour. Howerver, a few comments

I'm not really sure that 'utterances' is such a rare word it requires a footnote! Its the sort of thing I would use occasionally and have never had any problems with.

I suspect there is a lot more to this subject. Dunno why, just felt like you could flesh it out a bit?

And in reference to that, you could maybe make reference to the numerous attempts over the centuries to set up an English version of the Academie Francais. In fact I believe there are people STILL trying to do just this. I believe we very nearly got one, if in fact we didn't actually achieve this in the 18th or 19th century, albeit for a short while. Can't remember where I came across it, probably in 'The Isles' (history of the British Isles) or someplace. If you can't find a reference I shall try and dig this out for you.

Your bit on languages helping to perpetuate empires was a good point, perhaps some mention of the Public School 'Breed' of the Second British Empire days (ie India etc) could come in here? Their language was very much the language of an elite and designed to define the 'them and us' division.

Unfortunatly by its nature these comments seem negative but I was pleasantly surprised to find I understood the whole thing with little problem. Only trying to be helpful!

Blimey, a mini essay in its own right! Anyway, feel free to ignore / criticise any of this. If I've made any incorrect assumptions, let me know so I don't carry on blissfully in my own ignorance!

Cheers

Hi there Ictoan,

Ta very much for taking the time to read and reply. Cool!

OK, point by point:

>>I'm not really sure that 'utterances' is such a rare word it >>requires a footnote! Its the sort of thing I would use occasionally >>and have never had any problems with.

You may well be right there. The footnote really stems from the fact that this is a term that is very common in linguistics (ie a standard term with a very specific meaning and usage). I didn't want it to seem to be a fancy word shoved in there to look good when a simple one would have done. I don't think it is.

>>I suspect there is a lot more to this subject. Dunno why, just felt >>like you could flesh it out a bit?

Yes, you are right. I had a terrific burst of creative energy at the end of last week, plus some time to indulge it, so it all got done in one go. I need to have a good editing session sometime soon.


>>And in reference to that, you could maybe make reference to the >>numerous attempts over the centuries to set up an English version >>of the Academie Francais. In fact I believe there are people STILL >>trying to do just this. I believe we very nearly got one, if in >>fact we didn't actually achieve this in the 18th or 19th century, >>albeit for a short while. Can't remember where I came across it, >>probably in 'The Isles' (history of the British Isles) or someplace. <>Your bit on languages helping to perpetuate empires was a good >>point, perhaps some mention of the Public School 'Breed' of the >>Second British Empire days (ie India etc) could come in here? Their >>language was very much the language of an elite and designed to >>define the 'them and us' division.

Yep, with you there. Although I did wonder whether that bit really had its place in this article. I'm still not sure. I had to keep stopping myself from going off on complete red herrings all the time! I will think about the PS thing. Thanks

>>Unfortunatly by its nature these comments seem negative but I was >>pleasantly surprised to find I understood the whole thing with >>little problem. Only trying to be helpful!

Not at all, Ictoan, thanks once again for your comments. You can be *much* more negative than that if you think it needs to be said!

Seeya
Spiff

Ictoan, I forgot to say sorry about not noticing earlier that you had left a message.

And thanks, because as a result I worked out that you have to *ask* to be informed about posts under articles (even if you wrote them).

Sp

the mention of e.f.l. introduces some interesting points.

The "standard english" style can be seen in longman's dictionary of contempory english, where ALL of the entries in the dictionary are taken from the controled vocabulary of about 2,000 words.

For french, german, spanish and italian speakers learning english, or english people learning any of these languages, you can do worse than use harrap's five language dictionary, which is a translation dictionary containing about 20,000 words in each language, with the translations for each language. usefull.

prescriptive is helpfull to keep things simple when learning, but descriptive is much more usefull later on. it is also essential for any work on linguistic drift.

personally I prefer the oed's approach, where you maintain two dictionaries. one containes every word that you come across (the complete oed) and has over 145,000 words. the other(s) contains smaller copies reduced in size to fit their respective markets.

with good vocabularies, concordances and grammers, most of the problem of which approach to use disappears anyway.

e.f.l. ? Sorry I don't get that one, is it something to do with the english language academy thingy I couldn't remember the name of ?

As for the entry, I shall look into it. Just gotta find the reference now! Unless, of course, Xyroth's comment was to do with this and can do it for me *grin*

Spiff, I think perhaps you are right, the Breed deserve an entry on their own, the whole public school thing, stiff upper lip, and what was hidden behind it.

Always makes me laugh when people say we should go back to Victorian values!

e.f.l. = english as a foreign language.

Dictionaries for foreign learners use a 'defining' vocabulary of 2.000 words, but even the smallest manages to give meanings for at least ten times that.
I'm going to write an article on efl over the weekend

I think that longman's (mentioned above) has over 65,000 definitions, so you learn the 2000 or so in the definition vocabulary, and you can access the rest. it also splits itso you can see which are british english specific, and which are american english specific.