A Conversation for The SA-80 Assault Rifle

SA 80

Post 1

Researcher 237325

Nice article,but here are a few corrections:

"Originally designed by Enfield as a mass-producable version of their experimental EM2 bullpup rifle, it was produced by Heckler and Koch after their takeover of Enfield."

This rifle was not related to the EM2 although they are both bullpup designs.

It was mechanically based on the AR 18 which was produced under licence in the UK by the Stirling Armaments Company

This link may be of help,(http://world.guns.ru/assault/as36-e.htm).

Enfield built all of these rifles,production ended in 1996.

BAE Systems (ex British Aerospace) owned Royal Ordnance who owned Enfield who bought Heckler and Koch who then upgraded the rifles to A2 standard.

Heckler and Kock did not takeover Enfield.

Heckler and Kock has since been sold by BAE Systems;

"Despite the SA-80's many good points, it is interesting to note that the British Special Forces (including the SAS) tend not to use it due to the fact that the safety catch is operated by the trigger finger, apparently making it difficult to set the catch to "Fire" and open fire very quickly, as well as the ol' reliability issues. They like the M16 because you can fit a grenade launcher to it."

The S.A.S bought M16s in preference to the Army's standard rifle the L1A1 S.L.R. many years before the SA80 went into production.

They replaced their M16s with Canadian Diemaco C7s a few years ago,after production of the SA 80 A1 had ended and before the SA 80 A2 entered production.

In recent tests in Afghanistan the SA 80 A2 proved much more reliable than M16s used by the Royal Marines.

This link may be helpful,(http://www.navynews.co.uk/articles/2002/0211/1002111301.asp);

"Although the LSW is technically a light machine gun, it's essentially a IW with a longer barrel, a bipod, a rear grip and a shoulder mount."

This rifle was called a Light Support Weapon because it was not intended to be a light machine gun.

Magazine fed light machine guns run out of ammunition very quickly in combat.

One alternative is the belt fed light machine gun,but the gun and ammunition are heavy and slow down the infantry section.

As most rounds fired by machine guns do not hit their targets,it was thought better to fire a small number bullets that hit than many which don't.

This led to the development of the Light Support Weapon,effectively a cross between a sniper rifle and a light machine gun;

"But things didn't get better. Since then, the rifle has been widely criticised for its intolerance of extreme temperature variations, continually seizing up and causing vast numbers of stoppages. The firing pin and bolt were found to have been made out of a type of iron that was far too brittle, and the cocking lever's proximity to several sharp edges has been know to cause servicemen serious lacerations when cocked in a hurry. There have been numerous other problems too."

Many years ago our typically short sighted politicians decided that the only wars we would fight in future would be against the Warsaw Pact in western Europe.

So the Navy was equipped with ships fit only for hunting Soviet Submarines and fighting long range high altitude bombers in mid ocean.

Many of these ships were sunk by fast low flying aircraft while close to shore in the Falklands.

The R.A.F. was trained to fly at low level using European hills for cover from Soviet radars.

Many of their aircraft were shot down over the flat open deserts of Iraq.

The Army was given rifles designed to be mass produced with little machining which could stand limited use during the short expected life of an infantryman fighting the Soviet armoured thrust into northern Europe.

These rifles proved inadequate for the intensive use in arctic,desert and jungle conditions which they had never been designed for in the first place.

Thankfully,we never found out how well they performed their intended task.

The SA 80 A2 was designed to a more demanding set of requirements and I heve yet to hear of problems with it in Iraq.

Although I did hear that a number of U.S. soldiers were killed in action when their weapons jammed.

They were using M16s,the rifle often proposed as a replacement for the SA 80.

Also,would the pin and bolt have been made out of iron or steel?

The weight of a loaded L.S.W. with sight is given as 7.23kg at this site,(http://www.army.mod.uk/equipment/pw/pw_lsw.htm).






SA 80

Post 2

Researcher 237325

Sorry,I meant 7.28kg.


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