h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

When referring to something belonging to someone whose name begins with an s, eg, Jones, Yates, does the apostrophe just go after the s;
Jones' place, or do you add an extra s; Jones's place.
Hope one of you can settle this - my boyfriend and I were discussing it at length yesterday.........

It's okay - I know the answer now.......it's Jones's place! I was right! Yippee!

I could've sworn 'twas "Jones' place"... ah well. life is full of surprises.
...and all you apostrophe fans out there, just switch to FRENCH ! That's a language with plenty o' apostrophes !

Hello, apostrophe guardians. I think British usage in this area is as follows:

Ancient names ending in -s just add an apostrophe: Jesus', Socrates'
All other names and words add an apostrophe and -s: Jones's, convenience's (as in 'for convenience's sake'), Marks's, Marx's.

American usage tends to add an apostrophe only for any words ending in -s. This usage seems to be gaining ground in British English too, which is a shame, since it is confusing (e.g. Joan's or Jones').

Can I become a member of your illustrious society now?
Jack

I've been a Jones for more than 30 years, My usage is as follows:
Jones' for everything except our house, when there is no apostrophe becase the omitted letter has been reinstated, as in "There's a party at the Joneses tonight"

But do you say [joanz] or [joanziz]?

I've been an honorary Jones for nearly 20 years. My usage is different from Wand'rin Star's.

The house of Joe Jones is Joe Jones's house.
Joe and Petula Jones are the Joneses.
The house of Joe and Petula is the Joneses' house.

All these are pronounced Jónziz.

But then I'm Irish, what would I know?

Same as mine, Gnomon. I don't know if it's the same in Ireland, but in Britain people seem to be increasingly using e.g. Jones' and pronounced [jónz].

I was taught to write it Jones' and to pronounce it Jónziz. I would have thought that the spelling Jones's is recent and gaining in popularity. For example, Bridget Jones's Diary.

What you are observing may be a reaction to this by people who think they "know grammar". This would be similar to the people who say "he gave it to you and I" because they know that "me and him went down the road" is bad grammar.

Looks like I'll have to check my facts at some point. Is this true just for Jones? Perhaps because Jones, Richards etc were originally genitives, (with the e in Jones preserved in the spelling - for those who didn't know, that's what the apostrophe stands for) they form a special group.

I'd say 'me and him' is a colloquialism rather than bad grammar.

I don't think it's just Jones. I think the same would apply to any singular ending in s, but Jesus's is just too hard to say so people settle for Jesus' house.

Jones' pronounced Joanz, Joneses pronounced Joanziz
Most of the (Welsh derived) surnames do the same in my idiolect: Jenkins' + the Jenkinses, Thomas' + the Thomases, Hopkins' and the Hopkinses.
But the Smiths' house, the Browns' house like the possessive of any other plural noun

Being the Apostrophe Oracle, and the chief source of knowledge for This Sort Of Thing, I offer this simple advice:

To indicate possesion you add "-'s" (or just "-'" if the word is a plural ending in "-s") and pronounce the addition /iz/. The only exceptions (as pointed out) are ancient names like Socrates and Jesus. [NB Jesus' is pronounced "jeezyooz"]

So:

Mr Jones. Mr Jones's House. Mr and Mrs Jones are the Jonses and they live in the Jonses' house.

Socrates wrote lots of things and Socrates' work is well-known.

Jesus is a major character* in the Bible. Jesus' story is well known.

Dead simple really.

Have fun!

ProfGram x



[* my use of the word "character" to describe Jesus does NOT indicate any religious opinion.]

Thanks for that, Professor Grammar, but we've already had two conflicting 'definitive statements', one from a Jones who is a grammar teacher (Wand'rin Star) and one from an honorary Jones (married to a Jones), who fancies himself as knowing a bit about these things (me).

I suppose if you're actually a Jones yourself, then you probably have a bit more authority on this subject. I'd hate to tell people how to spell their own name.

But saying that, there's hardly such thing as a "definitive statement" when it comes to such things as apostrophes, so I would generally say just do whatever the hell you like. Unless you're using apostrophe's to form plural's. Because that's baaaad.

Some say we should just ditch the apostrophe for posession full stop.

I've always learned that it's up to you whether to add those s's and/or pronounce them on names that end in 's' and 'z'. So it seems to me everyone is right.

I love happy endings...