A Conversation for Islam

Truth

Post 1

Amon

I'm going to start by saying that I can find little truth in your little flyer. The person who wrote that little flyer has done little else then playing on common misconceptions about about Islam and supporting them by taking statements from the Quran and taking them out of concept.

While I could find statements from the bible that support things that would be considered immoral and exceptionaly violant but unlike the person who wrote this I am not on a crusade against any sort of religion. Perhaps I should take the statements out of context when I have some time.

It sickens me that people would intentionally go out and attack other faiths just because they are not theirs. Such hate mongers are among the worst of humanity


Truth

Post 2

Amon

I have decided to point out the myriad of mistakes and misconceptions in your flyer. Firstly, I shall start by defining the meaning of fundamentalism, which may be described as:
1. The belief in old and traditional forms of religion, or the belief that what is written in a holy book, such as the Christian’s Bible, is completely true.
Or,
2. The belief that the traditional principles of a religion should be maintained, and that what is taught in a holy book should be obeyed.


Shockingly, fundamentalism does not seem to have much to do with terrorism. If every fundamentalist did such things there would not be much of a world out there because fundamentalists (which can be Christian, Islamic, Jewish, Pagan etc.) would have destroyed everybody and everything. Now that we have brought a little media induced misconception into the light we shall precede by looking at the actual meaning of Jihad.

The article states that Jihad means struggle. This is indeed a correct translation of the word. However by no way does it mean “holy war”. This usage, although popularized by western media is totally incorrect. If one would translate “holy war” into Arabic it would be "harbun muqaddasatu". Now as you can see the words are not even remotely similar. Also the Islamic belief is that one should not spread Islam by violence. The Qur’an in fact forbids this, for example in verse (2:256): "Let there be no compulsion (or coercion) in the religion (Islam). The right direction is distinctly clear from error.” If one really looks to the history of Islam one might see the sword not at all spread Islam. Even in today’s world with all the bad propaganda many people are finding their way to Islam. This quote from a good study of the question of the spread of Islam written by a Christian missionary, T. W. Arnold:

"...Of any organized attempt to force the acceptance of Islam on the non-Muslim population, or of any systematic persecution intended to stamp out the Christian religion, we hear nothing. Had the caliphs chosen to adopt either course of action, they might have swept away Christianity as easily as Ferdinand and Isabella drove Islam out of Spain, or Louis XIV made Protestantism penal in France, or the Jews were kept out of England for 350 years. The Eastern Churches in Asia were entirely cut off from communion with the rest of Christendom throughout which no one would have been found to lift a finger on their behalf, as heretical communions. So that the very survival of these Churches to the present day is a strong proof of the generally tolerant attitude of Mohammedan [sic] governments towards them" (8).


This now brings me to a very important point and it concerns the meaning of Jihad in Islam. What does Jihad really mean? It, in fact has many meanings; one of them is to strive for self-control. Another is to strive for knowledge, yet another is to struggle to do righteous deeds.

It seems that we could all use more “jihad” in our lives. Another meaning still is to defend Islam, just as I am doing now. As the saying goes the pen is indeed stronger than the sword.

Let us go further by looking at the quotes taken from the Qur’an. Not that they have much to do with jihad but I shall still put them in the correct context.

The first one was:

"Strike terror (into the hearts of) the enemies of God and your enemies."
Surah 8:60

Now for some reason (surely an honest mistake) he seems to have slightly misquoted this verse. I have looked into several different English translations of the Qur’an and the first part of Surah 8:60 is as follow:

”Against them make ready, your strength to the utmost. Including steeds of war, to strike terror into (the hearts of) the enemies, of Allah and your enemies.”

Now the author of this flyer claims that this verse is an example of Allah ordering Muslims to terrorize non-Muslims on His behalf. But is this not intelligent advice when in war? To use the best weapons you have (not only in a physical but also moral or spiritual battle). Also if one causes fear in ones enemy (because for example you have better cavalry) he will not be so eager to wage war against you. This is not only effective but also in the long run saves many many lives.

Furthermore the author has neglected to mention the verse after that one (surprisingly how many do this), I shall give it.

(8:61) “ But if the enemy inclines towards peace. Do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in Allah: for he is the One that heareth and knoweth (all things).

A revelation too many that while the Qur’an states to wage war effectively it also states that one should always look for an opportunity for peace. This is also reflected in the fact that in Islam one is not allowed to start wars, but is allowed to defend ones self.

Let us move on to the second quote:

Fight (kill) them (non-Muslims), and God will punish, (torment) them by your hands, cover them with shame." Surah 9:14

Again I fear that the author has misquoted the Qur’an. I have again looked at several translations and have even showed the verse to those who read Arabic but we can’t seem to find the words kill, non-Muslims or torment anywhere in it. Really if one quotes something one should not add to it. Anyway here is the true translation:

“Fight them, and Allah will punish them by your hands. Cover them with shame; help you (to victory over them) Heal the breasts of believers” (Surah 9:14)

Now let’s go further to see what the Surah is truly about. The people God commanded Muslims to fight were those who had broken their peace treaty with them and taunted their faith. Now, if these people could not or would not obey peace treaties what else are you to do? Again the verse quoted by the author has nothing to do with Jihad or with terrorizing non-Muslims.

Now to the third and last quote I shall handle :
”I will instill terror into the hearts of the unbelievers, smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them. It is not ye who slew them; it was God."
Surah 8:13-17.

Again he has failed to quote the verse correctly. But this time he has not even given the correct number. It was verse 8:12. Anyway I shall now proceed to quote the verse.

“Remember thy lord inspired the angels (with the message): “I am with you: give firmness to the Believers. I will instill terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers. Smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger tips off them” (Surah 8:12)

I shall point a few things out. The whole Surah tells about the battle of Badr. In verse 8:9 God states that he shall send a thousand angels to help them (because Mohammed had a force of 300 ill-equipped men who went against 1000 well armed men). Surah 8:12 was about God telling something to the angels. Cutting above their necks is an efficient and human way of killing someone (and easier against someone with armor). By cutting off someone’s fingertips makes it a lot easier to take someone prisoner. And before some one gets agitated by this, it should be noted that people had methods a lot crueler in that past time and that mankind has and still uses crueler methods in this present time. Mustard gas is not pleasant, neither is the electric chair.

I am done for today. I am tired and I hope that I have made clear how this flyer is full of lies and cannot be trusted. If you still doubt download a Qur’an or get one from your local library and check out the Surahs yourself and draw your own conclusions.

Amon


Truth

Post 3

Researcher 202452

Well said brother.

Adib


Truth

Post 4

Amon

Thank you.


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