h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Mikey
Please forgive me taking the liberty of starting a new subject, which I hope you can use.

I've posted my general experience of Deja Vu on the 90% thread and will reproduce it here as a reply to this, so others can read it.

*Snip and change* Here's a thread where people can SAFELY discuss their experiences with Deja Vu. Realizing that these may be intensely personal issues for many people, we will all strive to be as courteous with each other as possible. *Snip*


x x Fenny

Deja Vu (First posted on "90% of the Brain" thread)

John Dunne wrote a book called "An Experiment with Time" in which he wrote down his dreams and checked them against real life. I have done the same, and have noticed the following sorts of dreams:

* Dreams which recur many times in one night or throughout my life
* Dreams which have occurences very similar to real life (different people but same outcome, for example)
* Dreams which exactly reproduce a scene from my life.

These dreams happen in either time-direction (see weakpun's ideas on time).

I have noticed that some of the recurrent dreams are repeated - and also that there can be a feeling of repetition even the first time some occur, as if I remember future examples. On some occasions, I become more focussed on a small part of the dream, making this a larger part of the picture (as you would zoom in on a computer image). I notice this awareness during my sleep, so it becomes part of my dream.

The second sort of dream is more comfortable. This influences my general life to the extent where I have some idea where a conversation will end up, but I can change it.

I understand the third sort of dream to be Deja Vu. I suffer a moment of disorientation, then realise that I've "been here before". I might see a second-long repeat, for example someone moving a chess piece, or a thirty-second cut scene. I have no autonomy over this cut-scene - once I walked along a road, moving from side to side and even turning around, in an attempt to beat the memory. I must have looked very foolish, and what's worse is I recognised every moment, including the feeling of recognition and the feeling that I couldn't win back my independence.

Sorry for the long posting...

x x Fenny

I have seen explanations of the feeling of deja vu hypothesising it is due to the different neural pathways which exist to our eyes. Anything we see is processed independently by both our eyes and then combined into a 3-dimensional image in the brain. Presumably these routes normally work at about the same speed, with information arriving from both eyes simultaneously and being interpreted as the same scene.

However, if the signal from one eye should be delayed for some reason, then perhaps the brain might get confused. This new data seems familiar (we've already processed it with one eye milliseconds before) but has arrived too late to be the same scene. Deja vu!

Obviously this isn't going to cover events which you've previously documented such as dreams, but it could explain the momentary feeling of 'I've been here before..' that you sometimes get.

Regarding dreams, I've also heard it suggested that dreams provide a mechanism for mentally rehearsing social situations before we go through them for real. If this is the case then we might well end up in situations which we'd anticipated and already worked through in our dreams...

Well, I have the distinct impression that I've seen this explanation of déja vu before!

I've also seen both explanations before. Thanks, Cabby, because they are relevant answers which should be explored in the Project.

They are answers which I am not necessarily in agreement with, but I am grateful that someone has suggested this view in a dignified comment.

Thanks again

x x Fenny (yay, both sides of the coin are being explored!)

Hi Fenny,

I'm certainly not trying to dismiss people's experiences out of hand but I'm sure you'd agree that it's important to look for mainstream explanations of particular events before accepting paranormal ones.
I know people who can identify drawings done by third parties and placed in sealed envelopes while blindfolded, but they wouldn't claim to be telepathic, just good magicians. Just because something appears inexplicable, doesn't mean that it is.

I have no idea whether things like precognition, telekinesis and the like exist, but I have to say I have yet to see anything to convince me that they do. I certainly wouldn't claim that science necessarily has all the answers either. After all, scientific theories have been proved wrong in the past, so it would equally remiss to assume that the current state of knowledge will never change. However, a good scientific theory should contain within it the possibility that it is wrong and can be replaced with a better theory. This normally occurs when predictions made by a theory cannot be repeated. Whether any ESP activity will ever stand up to this test remains to be seen.

Anyway, this is getting a bit off topic now, so I'll leave it there!

Hi Cabby.

Don't worry, your post was not off-topic: it's showing a very important viewpoint for a University Project that Mikey's coordinating. What follows is an opinion that's designed to provoke you into making a response. Please help out!

I recognise that the mainstream view is that we should look for 'mainstream' explanations before accepting paranormal explanations. It does seem, however, that people won't accept that others can perceive differently from themselves, without trying to explain the perceptions within a frame that doesn't fit (ie a mainstream explanation). My understanding is that there is probably an explanation for these extra-sensory perceptions which will one day be scientific fact, but which at the moment is not mainstream. Could I ask your opinion on that suggestion?

I don't want to ask a leading question and put words into your mouth, so I'm going carefully here. What would be your feelings and your response if you were told of a precognitive sequence by a friend of yours? I'd also be interested to know your opinions of mainstream sci-fi and fantasy that deal with precognitive issues, such as "the X-Files" and films like "Final Destination" (I'm trying at the moment to think of any non-USA sources, but I'm not succeeding. I'll research that for the the Entry. Feel free to post any!)

x x Fenny (thanks for your help!)

It's certainly important to retain an open mind when dealing with unusual phenomena in any circumstance. However, where accepting that phenomena requires the over-turning of a large body of well established scientific theory then there certainly should be a reasonable amount of experimental evidence to support it. It's often said that extra-ordinary claims require extra-ordinary evidence and in the absence of a scientific environment it is difficult to see how that evidence could be presented. I think the key here is to distinguish what constitutes a 'mainstream' explanation.

If I claimed to be able to predict the future for example, I assume you would want proof of that fact before believing me? I would suggest that the only form that proof could take would be in a 'scientific' environment. I would make a prediction, specifying in advance what conditions will have to take place in order for that prediction to be correct. Depending on the chance of my prediction being true (obviously I'm not going to get many takers for predicting the sun will rise tomorrow for example ) if I'm right then you might believe that I can predict the future. If I can do it repeatedly then there would be a case for examining the processes behind precognition. However, if I get it right once and wrong twenty times (but don't tell you about my failures), then is that still a valid case for investigation?

These requirements don't require an explanation of the mechanism behind the phenomenon takes place, but would seem to me the minimum in order to establish whether there is a phenomenon there at all. Otherwise we would have to take everything on trust. I'm afraid my mind isn't quite that open!

If a friend told of of a precognitive sequence of events I admit that I would be sceptical. I might ask if this was a common occurance and whether other predictions they have made have also come true (after all, thinking of someone just before they phone you up for example is less impressive if you've thought about them hundreds of other times and they 'didn't' call you up). The human mind has a habit of remembering unusual coincidences just because they are unusual. After all, if you had a bad feeling about someone and nothing happened then you would tend to just forget about it. It's only the unusual that sticks in the mind.

I might also ask if some external event might have brought on the prediction. (for example, if you were thinking of your best friend from school and they suddenly phone you up because they were thinking of you, perhaps you'd both just been watching a news report which mentioned your old school on the TV, spawning the same chain of thoughts in you both).

As far as programs like the X-Files go, I treat them as harmless entertainment. I can't claim to be a dedicated viewer, but I've enjoyed watching the X-Files in the past. What does worry me is shows such as Unexplained Mysteries, which present incredibly loosely monitored paranormal events as supposedly confirming psychic powers. Even if these phenomona do exist, I've seen 'so-called' factual shows where obvious conjuring tricks have been presented as paranormal demonstrations.

These programs can only contribute to a lack of scientific awareness in the population at large. As I type this for example, I've been watching a satirical news show, BrassEye, where celebrities had been duped into broadcasting a warning about 'Heavy Electricity' leaking out of wires and crushing people like 'lead soup'. A society where people are easily convinced of rubbish like that is going to be easy prey for frauds both within 'mainstream' science and the paranormal. I think it important to maintain a sceptical viewpoint in many areas, scientific or otherwise. After all, as it's often been said, it's possible for your mind to be so open that your brain falls out...

Well, what can i say? when i was seven, I experienced a Grand Mal epileptic seizure, and ever since that time, on occasion, i have had dreams, which unlike normal dreams, i can remember in minute detail for a few hours after waking up, even though i do forget eventually, until some point in the future, when these dreams, without fail come true. At that point, the dream is remembered again. I have also experienced from time to time, unconscious acts of some form of long range telepathy, knowing exactly what mood a friend or relative is in, or what they are thinking, when i have not spokent to that person at all that day. For example, on two occasions, i have sensed that my something has been wrong with my girlfriend...the first time, she was stuck in bed, with a serious case of the flu, and the second time, had had a very bad day and was depressed, but anyway, that is my input to the topic

Occasionally I have a dream that won't let me forget it. I had one once that bothered me for three weeks, 'till I wrote it down. After I wrote it down I was finally able to forget it, but some of the people who have read it since keep reminding me of it.

Recently I had another dream that stayed in my mind very clearly, and is begging to be written, but as I like to put things off I haven't gotten to it yet. Maybe I should stay out of The Palace Flophouse and Grill and do some of the writeing I keep meaning to!