A Conversation for Talking Point: The World of Sport
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Pinniped Started conversation Jul 16, 2009
Sport is inspirational. Some of the best experiences of my life have been through sport, both playing it and watching it.
Among the traditional summer sports, I don't like tennis so much, partly because I was never very good at it. The Weddell was pretty good, and usually beat me. Athletics is/was OK, but a bit lacking in complexity.
Cricket is sublime, though.
Time was when an Ashes series would have generated continuous discussion on this site. What's changed, I wonder?
You wanted anecdotes. I've got plenty, but my greatest claim to fame/shame is probably carrying my bat for nought. We didn't get many, obviously. I think it might have been 24 all out. (I'm rather sure I should have been 9th out, plumb lbw, but by then the umpire was enjoying it too much. And then finally our number 11 ran himself out, just to make sure I didn't spoil it).
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 16, 2009
Agreed. Cricket is the most wonderful of sports; the way a ball can be bowled at 90+ miles an hour only to be elegantly stroked, maybe even caressed, to the boundary by the man at the other end is something astonishing to behold. And I defy anyone who moans about the length of a Test match to find such drama as you'd find in the final ball at Edgbaston in 2005 in any other arena, sporting or otherwise. It takes five days to build that kind of tension.
I've been a fan since I was a kid, but only really fell in love with it in India. It's hard not to when you walk past a ghat in Varanasi and pass a gang of eight-year-old boys playing under the watchful eye of umpires and scorers of the same age. I taught cricket in a school in Nepal for a few days and this year got my friends in The Gambia whooping and hollering around celebrating taking wickets. I've never quite been able to put my finger on why it's such a joyous sport, but it is.
As for TMS - you only need to listen to 'legover': http://www.bbc.co.uk/fivelive/sport/bestcommentary/
We started a cricket team last year; a bunch of friends and family who enjoy knocking a ball around, and it was in part inspired by the h2g2 clip we made for A5168063 - hence the mention of the Cavendish Cavaliers at the end! We've picked up a few honourary members since then (see http://www.cavendishcavaliers.com/honourary.php ).
Pin would fit right in as a Cavalier. Our cod Latin motto is 'Inefficax fidens' - roughly, 'nobly incompetent' - and we're already the embodiment of that spirit. Almost a third of our innings end without scoring. My brother came down from Bristol to play for us one afternoon, only to split his nose open missing a catch during fielding practice. One of our fielders ended up with cricket ball-size swellings on both shins after deciding it would be better to stop a drive with his legs than his hands. Small boys regularly score their first century or take their first five-wicket haul against the Cavaliers. We arrive for friendlies only to find we've been lined up as cannon fodder for next week's cup final. And yet we turn up, week after week, hoping that at least we'll get a good tea out of it, discussing our tactics (like tactics will help the likes of us), praying that the opposition will go easy on us and wondering if our star batsman will be sober enough to last more than a couple of balls this week. And the laughter doesn't stop until we fall out of the curry house several hours later.
I could talk about cricket for hours, as you can probably tell...
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Pinniped Posted Jul 17, 2009
Wow. Quite a second day.
England played really well. My greatest pleasure of all, though, unseemly though it may be, was the Vile Smear of Roo's Ordure that ostensibly captains Australia getting sawn off.
I'm currently dreaming that all those years of cheating and gamesmanship have finally caught up with Ponting. His petulance after Swansea, plus the fact that his nasty, puckered and piggy-eyed little face reminds us all of a foetal George W Bush, has evidently offended the Almighty so much that he is now destined for a whole series of cheap and freakish dismissals and an ever more delicious spiral of press conference bitterness, until in the second innings at the Oval with the Ashes long gone, Jimmy Anderson smashes his ribs with a lifter, and as the medics gather round to try and restart his heart, they jump back in shock as an unseasonal bolt of lightning reduces his corporeal substance to an oily stain and an unpleasant smell in mid-pitch.
Yeah, well, I don't like the guy.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 17, 2009
Even Lainey says 'I can't stand that bloody weasel' whenever he appears on TV.
Standing and glaring at the ump isn't the attitude of a captain, at least not one deserving of respect. He may not have hit the ball, but he should have been given out lbw anyway. He knew that, of course. His reaction - to pretend nothing had happened and the false attempt at stealing a single - gave that away. And if he still feels cheated, he should take a good look at his own record of good sportsmanship. As for Swansea; well, perhaps he should have declared earlier as we all expected him to.
And lest we forget: http://www.smh.com.au/news/cricket/arrogant-ponting-must-be-fired/2008/01/07/1199554571883.html
Funniest moment of the day was Shane Warne's hilarious comment that 'my instinct was that the ball was going down leg'. An incredulous Atherton was momentarily speechless and could only manage a stunned 'you what?' Tell you what, Shane - if you reckon that was going down leg we should wipe half your wickets from the record, because everyone else's first instinct was that it looked plumb.
Pipe down and get on with the bloody game, lads.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 17, 2009
What complete load of tosh Pin but I wont respond in kind about English practices or players.
Gamesmanship and cheating are big calls but obviously the interpretation differs from country to country.
Full points to the Poms though for their efforts so far but not a lot in the sportmanship stakes.
Day three beckons...
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Pinniped Posted Jul 18, 2009
Interesting slant KM.
Let me say straight out that I like Aussies as a rule, count many as friends and welcome them here. Compared with the locals, they generally have a cheerful disposition, generosity at the bar and scrupulous personal hygiene.
But Ricky Ponting Esq is an unspeakable, charmless divot.
Most of the Aussies I know tend to agree with this characterisation as well, and would love to see the back of him for the sake of national dignity. Do you really think that England practices gamesmanship on the cricket field any more than does Australia? It's a sad fact that inhabitants of that Lonely Country are sometimes afflicted by a persecution complex that seems to encourage such delusions.
Nonetheless you surely wouldn't go as far as suggesting that Ponting himself exemplifies sportsmanship? Or are you perhaps his mother? If the answers to these three questions are Yes, Yes and No respectively, then I beseech you to seek psychiatric help.
I'd like to see England on a mission this summer. By humiliation, disabling injury or both, we must write that individual out of the annals of sporting history for ever. The world as a whole will be a better place for it.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 19, 2009
For the Ponting apologist up there...
Scenario one: Flintoff edges a low catch to Ponting who takes it an inch or so off the ground. Flintoff isn't sure if it's carried, so checks with the fielder, whose word he takes and he walks off.
Scenario two: Phil Hughes edges a low catch to Strauss, who takes it an inch or so above the ground. Hughes is given out by Koertzen and starts to walk. Ponting steps in, tells his boy not to go anywhere and has a word with the umpire, who checks with his colleague before confirming the decision.
Australia - find yourself a captain worthy of the name. Taylor and Waugh were terrific captains; tugging no forelock, but always fair and respectful of the umps. It's no coincidence that Ponting gets no respect abroad.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 20, 2009
"Australia - find yourself a captain worthy of the name. Taylor and Waugh were terrific captains; tugging no forelock, but always fair and respectful of the umps. It's no coincidence that Ponting gets no respect abroad."
Sorry can't agree and as for tugging the forelock, I'm not exactly sure who or what your referring too. Perhaps you've mixed your metaphor there
He's our captain and as such a certain amount of respect is always there.
As for ex-pats in Blighty...well they're allowed to have their opinion and the blokes sitting down with me at smoko on their eskys at various building sites are allowed theirs and it's diametrically opposed to those who Pinniped knows, who espouse this..."Most of the Aussies I know tend to agree with this characterisation as well, and would love to see the back of him for the sake of national dignity."
Simple geographic methinks as well as demographics. Do they wear ties and suits Pin or work indoors?
Apologist? Scenario two is all over the papers here and has been done to death and further post mortems are probably irrelevant.
I don't think I've ever told an English blogger or chat respondent to: "find yourself a captain worthy of the name" or words similar when discussing any English team I've watched going back to M. J. K. Smith in Australia in 65/66 (I was a lad ).
I saw two Test matches in Melbourne and in the last Smith's use of his bowlers, his field placings were questioned and after England scored 480 odd, Australia then went on to score 530 or a bit more and Bob Cowper scored 307. We drew the series and retained the Ashes.
Smith was lambasted by some sections of the British media of the day and I remember my uncle telling me that " the one thing that the English do really well is denigration. Let them do it as it's a past time they revel in. We're Australian and that's something they'll never understand." ( that's fairly close to what he said from memory)
and I've tried to stick to his advice ever since.
Day five beckons.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
AlexAshman Posted Jul 20, 2009
Might I just chip in and say that the whole 'third umpire' business is taking some of the fun out of cricket? It's all very well allowing the viewer to see replays augmented with hawkeye projections and snickometry, but judging whether catches go the distance using a TV set is just silly.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 21, 2009
A good win to England in the end and Flintoff fired up for the first time in a long while. A superb innings by Clarke and pretty to watch.
I'm not sure who picks man of the match in England but Strauss to my mind had more bearing on the match than anyone else, he set up England's position of strength.
The appalling umpiring is just part and parcel of Cricket these days but why the most important contest in Test Cricket does not have the number one and number two rated umpires officiating is yet another example of the rudderless ICC and it's ineptness.
A well spoken and fair speech by our captain in acknowledging England's ascendancy in the match.
An interesting interview was had with two old timers watching the cricket at Lords. They said the two sides were easily the weakest English and Australian sides they'd seen play at Lords with the exclusion of Ponting who they said would make any best of side they could devise.
I think they might have been just a tad uncharitable but they had been watching Tests there since 1948 and hadn't missed a match since then. Sam Loxton and the sometimes curmudgeonly Neil Harvey, both members of Bradman's 'Invincibles' and both keen observers of the game.
I tend to agree with them as we have certainly come back in the field and South Africa and India certainly rate above us and irregardless of the outcome of this series I don't think much will have changed and England and Australia will be vying for the fourth rung on the ladder behind SA, Ind, and SL who are all close together with SA probably on top at the moment despite our great series win last summer.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
AlexAshman Posted Jul 21, 2009
To be fair, the umpires didn't decide the match. Australia's economy in general just wasn't up to scratch - that fellow with the wonky bowling arm gave England plenty of boundaries.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Pinniped Posted Jul 21, 2009
Well, I checked up on the Aussies who don't like Ponting either. Two of the four (including the one who's absolutely scathing) have wandered off somewhere. The two I traced commented as follows:
Bruce (honestly): If this friend of yours (ie KM) isn't actually Ponting mother, then he's presumably still a Tasmanian, which means he's a close relative anyway. Need I say more?
Mike (slightly more sympathetically): Speaking up for Australian cricket captains is commendable, but this time it's futile. Ponting can bat and he's clearly worth his place in the team, but he's no ambassador. And in answer to the working-outdoor question, I'm only another bl**dy steelplant metallurgist, but I used to work with Brett Lee's dad. Good enough?
And wow, look at this. Objective Australian journalism: http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,25804334-5001505,00.html
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 21, 2009
Still sound like suits to me and I wont bore you with the results of grass poll from the dozen or so who sat down for smoko yesterday with me as we waited for concrete trucks to arrive on site.
Needless to say they don't mirror your examples one of who trots out the Tassie line, very clever of course.
Without going to the link, the fact that it's 'The Australian' means it's Murdoch press for a start and it's probably Malcom Cohn who's well suited to uphold the reputation of Murdoch papers and their ethos.
I could give you links as well that agree with my ideas but in the end it's all a bit meh really.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 21, 2009
Not going to agree on this, are we, Keith?
So presuming Lee is fit, how do you see the side for the Third test shaping up? You'd have to say that Siddle and Hilfenhaus are inked in, so it looks like a straight fight between Johnson and Lee for the final seamer's place. I don't see them dropping Hauritz - he's bowled pretty well so far. Do you think it will be a case of 'Brett's not quite there fitness-wise', or will they consider dropping the world's number three bowler? Johnson looks horribly under-cooked, and I don't know whether it would be better for him to be dropped or to leave him in, where he could conceivably get more punishment. Is he a bowler that thrives on bowling lots and getting a rhythm, or would you have expected him to be firing on all cylinders by now?
And all this without considering poor Stuart Clark. He bowled pretty well in his short spells over here and nailed us in 06-07.
The other outside chance, I guess, is that they trust the tail with the bat and leave out North, who had a shocker. But I can't see that, can you?
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 22, 2009
Nope, 'fraid not.
Clark in and Mcdonald is the whisper at the moment and I doubt Lee will be fit enough going on reports and really we're clutching at straws as Lee's record in Blighty is rubbish.
Johnson will be bowling in the Northampton match for sure and the unbelievably fragile Watson who may well get a look in as well.
But Ponting is on record as saying he does not want to split up his side from SA as he trys to install a firm esprit de corps and from all reports that I've read and listened too the on tour selector is going to listen to him.
The touring party was questioned right from the start and the lack of a back up opener was one position that was really questioned as was the very handy and sturdy Hodge being left out. Now we're paying the price I think for the small size of the touring party through the lack of choice.
We don't have a problem with batting as I think we have the better batsmen but we do have a major problem with the bowling. We've never really had a problem in the making of runs department but replacing the great bowlers who have retired in the last few years has and is the major problem.
Johnson has lost his mojo and if Cooley can't bring him around in the next tour match then I think they might consider dropping him.
His spell at Lords gave the game away and really let Strauss and Cook off the hook, it's the worst continuous display I've ever seen by an Australian bowler in a Test match.
Gillespie has some good insights to the mind games he's going through now as he did the same thing in 05, completely lost his rhythm and line and i hope the Australian camp takes notice of his advice that he's given.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 22, 2009
I heard Watson was meant to be the back-up opening batsman.
If I was Ponting, I'd be worried about Johnson, even if I was publicly backing him. He let England get off to a flyer in both innings, and with only Hilfers and Piddle as seam options Ponting didn't have much option but to keep bowling him. They must be praying that Johnson does well in the next tour match, or they're going to have a real dilemma.
Would Watson for North be an option, perhaps? You're right about the strength of the Australian batting, but I still don't see them playing five bowlers even though they could almost certainly get away with that. Watson could get through enough decent overs to give the main strike bowlers a break if Johnson underperforms again.
Interesting that you mention Cooley. He was rightly lauded for his work with the England pace bowlers in 2005, but his work with James Anderson seems to be missing from his CV. His attempt to remodel Jimmy's action was disastrous, brought on injuries, and set back his development by a couple of years. Just a thought, and one I can't back up with any proof, but perhaps he's being over-coached?
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Skankyrich [?] Posted Jul 22, 2009
Oh, and Gillespie lost a yard of pace. Nothing more. I don't think there were any mental issues with him initially; England targetted him, rightly sensing that he was no longer the bowler he used to be, and that brought the pressure.
Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller Posted Jul 22, 2009
Yep. I've had the same thoughts about 'guru' Cooley and wonder just what he was doing between Cardiff and London.
Well KP is gone for the rest of the series, bad news but as he didn't really have much of an impact in the two Tests gone I don't see it as a huge biggy.
Bell is being touted as replacement but what about someone else? Ed Joyce comes to mind.
I'm waiting for Fridays match to start and after the three days are up we'll have a clearer idea of the make up of our side.
Reports today suggest that Johnson won't be dropped or Hughes (who Gooch has been giving advice to) so they may well take the chance of putting Watson in and North out.
I'm no fan of Watson as I believe Australia has invested way too much time and energy on his behalf at the expense of other all round prospects in the domestic game, time will tell.
I'd not disregard the impact on Johnson of his Mum's (stupid imo) tv trashing of him as it would of hurt and also it was all a bit tawdry and I'm sure he's embarrassed by it all.
Hurry up Friday...I need my cricket hit
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Why is nobody discussing the Ashes?
- 1: Pinniped (Jul 16, 2009)
- 2: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 16, 2009)
- 3: Pinniped (Jul 17, 2009)
- 4: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 17, 2009)
- 5: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 17, 2009)
- 6: Pinniped (Jul 18, 2009)
- 7: RisedaleSpiderFly (Jul 19, 2009)
- 8: RisedaleSpiderFly (Jul 19, 2009)
- 9: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 19, 2009)
- 10: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 20, 2009)
- 11: AlexAshman (Jul 20, 2009)
- 12: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 21, 2009)
- 13: AlexAshman (Jul 21, 2009)
- 14: Pinniped (Jul 21, 2009)
- 15: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 21, 2009)
- 16: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 21, 2009)
- 17: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 22, 2009)
- 18: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 22, 2009)
- 19: Skankyrich [?] (Jul 22, 2009)
- 20: Keith Miller yes that Keith Miller (Jul 22, 2009)
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