h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I am getting f************** tired of all this s*******.
Is anyone seeing any progress? Are the BEEB's moving in any direction?

I don't see anything. And I don't want to look for it any more. This is really depressing. The question I have to ask myself is this:

W H A T _ A M _ I _ S T I L L _ D O I N G _ H E R E ? ? ?

Today I wanted to look up how well the h2g2-team of the SETI@home project was doing. (http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A195879)
Guess what. "This Guide Entry has been hidden, as it is pending moderation". This really s**** the big one.

Hey, does anyone listen to that sound? What does anyone think when he/she/it reads this? I would think: "I don't want to see any of these pages any more. They're so bad that even I can't be allowed to read it on the internet."

I do not understand why they don't get it. THE INTERNET IS NOT A BOOK FOR CHILDREN. IT'S THE F******* INTERNET. ANYONE CAN SAY WHAT THEY THINK. THERE IS NO CENSORSHIP. IF YOU CENSOR ME HERE, I WILL GO TO SOME N***** LITTLE ISLAND IN THE PACIFIC AND PUT MY F********* S***** THERE! AND NOONE CARES!!!!

[I edited this myself.]

-Gin
Keeper and Mixer of the Gin and Tonic,
Muse of the Lemon Garden.
NOT Keeper of COMPOSURE

I won't give up. I'll die standing.

Here's the plan.

We are the members of this community. We made the guide what it is today. The owners and the beeb's just gave us the framework. We are the content. Framework without content is nothing but cost. No revenue. No shareholder value. Nothing.

We will, for a limited time only, boycott the guide. No viewing, writing, reading, clicking, nothing.

We'll start on Monday. No hits for the guide on Monday. We'll come back on Tuesday. And then we'll have our guide for six days and the next Monday we're gone. Maybe they will notice that. Let's show them if they're too blind to see.

For this to work we have to tell _EVERYONE_ before Monday that we will do this. We have to post to a LOT of conversations and make our voice heard. They have to see the truck coming before it hits them.

And rememeber: on Monday, we're gone. Tuesday we're back.

Let me know what you think.

-Gin
Keeper and Mixer of the Gin and Tonic
Teletubby of the Guide

Having been hit with some uncalled-for moderation myself, Gin, I fully sympathise with your unhappiness. But I had a long read of backlog at the moderator's desk last night, and there were a few posts there with URLs to other places on BBC that explain what motivates this moderation... even if it doesn't excuse the lengths to which it goes.

I think the moderators should be assigned to cover certain popular places on a permanent basis instead of just swatting at any post that comes in from any old place. In that way they would get to know the regulars, they would understand the context of the threads, and there would be a lot less of this seemingly arbitrary censorship.

As regards the Seti@home page, it may still be in limbo because the owner hasn't claimed it. These things aren't being done automatically. If the researcher no longer "attends" h2g2, you would have to apply to the PTB to get the page re-instated.

But I'm not sure a shunning would work. These are pretty stiff lips you're dealing with, Gin.

Can I just point out that boycotting us won't change a thing. We are already on your side! We're doing all we can to help develop things so the Community is happy, but here's something to think about:

* If we get lots of irritated content that tries to incite antisocial behaviour - or anti-BBC behaviour - then do you think the BBC will think 'Cool - let's lift moderation'? No way.

* If h2g2 is perceived as a thorn in the side of the BBC, it will absolutely not help us, the h2g2 team, to help you, the h2g2 Community.

* This isn't what h2g2 is about. Why explode when you can try to help?

In essence, we are all in this together, but if some Community members insist on trying things like boycotting and spamming, then:

* You will alienate the h2g2 Team, and without us, you will get *nothing*.

* You will alienate the BBC, who currently love the h2g2 Community. Without the support of the BBC, we will get less development resource, and you will get *no new features*.

But it's up to the Community. I'm not going to change my view that this is a *very* Community led site, at least not until the Community loses the huge respect that I have for it.

Please think about it before you try to incite this sort of action. It's not constructive, but worse, it can't work - not because we disagree with you, but because it can only damage the project.

If you care, don't consider spam campaigns, boycots or anything else. If you care, work *with* us.

End of PR message.

Three other things on a purely practical note.

First, you're going to have a hard time organizing anything by Monday. A lot of people don't visit h2g2 every day, and they certainly don't visit on weekends. So lots of people wouldn't get the message until after Monday.

Second, it's going to take an awful lot of people staying away to make a noticeable change in h2g2's statistics. Even if all the Zaphodistas joined this boycott, I doubt h2g2 would be able to tell the difference. And I doubt they will all join.

Third, you should probably reconsider this idea if you're not willing to wait until you have enough people agreeing with you to make a difference. There's no sense raising a stink over a 'boycott' that is just a quick fix for your personal anger.

"As regards the Seti@home page, it may still be in limbo because the owner hasn't claimed it."

That is indeed the reason, Lil.

BTW we are changing the messages shown when things are hidden to show *exactly* why they are hidden (eg old and unreactivated content, referred stuff, failed stuff and so on). This should help.

Well, that's good news. I'm glad to hear about that change.

And can I just point out that all of the older content will return, even if unclaimed. It's just part of the moderation backlog, and it will return of its 'own accord' eventually - even if not reactivated by the original writer.

Boycotting h2g2? I've said it elsewhere, I'll say it again if I have to...

Boys playing at James Bond again.

From Mark and Peta's comments it appears to me that things ARE changing. Remember they were here BEFORE the BBC, they are also contributors to the Guide, and they ARE our link to the Powers That Be.

I note that the House Rules appear to have undergone at least one revision from the "no fun allowed" rules that were originally in place when H2G2 came back up. I still do not like the "no foreign languages" bit, but hearing that pages awaiting moderation will now be tagged with REASONS for their being unavailable, as opposed to the general "this page is either full of nasty smut, libelous drivel, or we just haven't been able to review it yet -- we're not telling" notice.

This is a good thing. This demonstrates to me that someone is listening to our concerns. Mark, Peta, Abi et al. are acting within their capabilities, within the system, and the system is responding -- albeit with the speed typical of most bureaucracies.

This is to be expected -- and it's not Mark, Peta, Abi, et al.'s fault.




-THDoM

Friendly but firm attitude - that's what I prefer!

We cannot allow ourselves to become alienated with Mark, Abi and Peta, for three reasons:

1) They are probably our best link to let BBC know what we really think and feel about all this!

2) Hey! They are already on 'our side', so stop picking on them!

3) I still believe (being an optimist deep down inside) that BBC will HAVE to listen to us, or they will end up with a site abandoned by all the real enthusiasts and exentric and colourful people, turning it into a REALLY boring site - but we have to accept that it'll take some time!

So, a national Researchers' strike, eh?

*puts on deepest voice*

"... and who would that inconvenience?"

[Dear Mr/s Moderator, I know that line's copyright, but I'm sure Mr Adams wouldn't mind, given the context]

I've just 'got back' after being without h2g2 (or Internet access) for several months, so I'm certainly not about to go on strike!

~A~

I would have to agree with Pegasus.

I just came back about 20 hours ago. I dont like what has been done to H2G2, but walking away will not do any good. If the BBC does not see the number of hits it wants, then what is to keep them from canning the whole show?

I have gripes. But I am seeing that some progress is being made. The fact that so many of the people who have made H2G2 what it is, or rather, was, are fighting to try and restore it shows the powers that be that there *is* strong interest in the site. Strong and loyal.

Hold fast, and stay together. But dont let them moderate your towel.

Contemplation

>BTW we are changing the messages shown when things are hidden to show *exactly* why they are hidden (eg old and unreactivated content, referred stuff, failed stuff and so on). This should help.<

Mark, thanks, this will definitely help. As much as I'd like to see pre-emptive moderation elimated or reduced, just taking the step of showing why something was moderated will clear up a lot of confusion and anger by contributors. [I'll comment on the rest of this later.]

>BTW we are changing the messages shown when things are hidden to show *exactly* why they are hidden
(eg old and unreactivated content, referred stuff, failed stuff and so on). This should help.<

I have just experienced being referred. I dont see much difference, or feel much better.

Kind of like the difference between being arrested and being taken into custody.

C***********n

Gin,

The reason to take more time for discussion is that we want to do things right, not just quickly and haphazardly. A boycott might be a worthwhile tactic, but I think we should hold off until later to use it.

The course of action I had been hoping to follow was to put out a petition (a revised, toned-down version of the demands from the Zaphodistas page), something that could be signed by most h2g2 researchers and not just Zaphodistas, then consider boycotts later if we saw no effect from the petition.

First, we don't know how much the BBC knows about the way we feel. If we can send an official message, routed to the right people, and with a large number of h2g2 researchers agreeing to it (hopefully more than just the Zaphodistas), then maybe they will listen, hopefully compromise on some issues, and we might not have to resort to boycotts. I imagine the h2g2 staff has kept their bosses informed about some of us rabble-rousers, but I'm not sure if they even realize how many of the most well-behaved, stable and beloved researchers would sign a petition opposing the ban on languages or off-site images, etc. We have over 100 people signing their names to my wildly frothing list of "demands." We could have many more with a tighter, toned-down petition.

Secondly, you have to think about the many different ways we could boycott the guide. For example, we could simply encourage researchers to avoid logging in for a day or a week or a month. Wumbeevil suggested that we could stop submitting guide entries for some period. DrGoof suggested what seems to me the scariest boycott idea I've heard yet: that all Zaphodistas could agree to a time period during which they would delete all of their unedited guide entries, and maybe their personal "My Space" pages. Apparently deleted pages are maintained on h2g2 servers and can be recalled later, good as new, although I would definitely save backup copies of my pages before deleting them. I'm not sure what kind of impact it would make to new users looking through the guide, and it would have no impact on people that only read the Edited guide. But with three or four guide entries per Zaphodista on the average, times 120+ Zaphodistas so far, we could turn approximately 360 to 480+ unedited guide entries into "This Guide Entry has been deleted" messages OVERNIGHT. And we could leave them that way for a week, a month, whatever.

I think this would be a more powerful boycott, but I want to hold off using it until we have sent a clear, rational message about how many researchers want the new BBC restrictions eliminated or minimized.

Meanwhile, I've heard positive things from Mark Moxon and Peta (apart from their occasional suggestions that some of us who don't like the new system should just go away). It sounds like they're lobbying for a less obtrusive moderation system, maybe URLs allowed in message posts before too long, maybe the ability to upload our own images to an h2g2 server eventually. I'd like to see what kind of changes they can bring about before totally clobbering them with something like a boycott. (And if we did have a boycott, I would think we should take more than a weekend to plan it and invite everyone to participate.)

Gin, I don't mean to be hostile toward you by arguing against your suggestion. It's nice to hear somebody make a suggestion, because unfortunately most of the activity on Zaphodista message fora has been about GOO berets, not enough debate over what tactics we should use. But I think we need to take more time to discuss our plan of attack.

If you haven't seen the 1988 movie "Colors," don't bother, it's not that good, but there's a cute anecdote in it that Robert Duvall tells Sean Penn, that I believe I can get away with paraphrasing, since I don't remember the movie nearly well enough to quote it.

An old bull and a young bull are standing at the top of a hill, overlooking a pasture full of nubile cows. (nubile?) The young bull says, "Hey, let's run down the hill and f*** a couple of those cows!"

"No. Let's walk down the hill," says the wise old bull, "and f*** them ALL."

Contemplation,

Good point. When your message is silenced now, it's not much consolation to hear that it may become available for viewing some unknown period of time later. Maybe pages that are hidden pending moderation should have a notice "BOOKMARK THIS PAGE! Keep checking back, because you may be allowed to read it later!"

You have to admit, though, that it's better to have censors tell you what crimes you've been charged with, than to get your message thrown in jail with no idea why.

Well, I think I know why they are being pulled. All because of the use of the begining name of the bigot thread. You know, the one that is supposedly a fictitious url?

I am trying to get around being rubber stamped again. I am well over ten times censored today, just on the use of those little words. In my own journal, as well in the thread of the same name.

Still, being "Referred" is not much consolation. Nor is being rubber stamped with [URL removed by moderator] over and over, even when you are trying different options for safely saying what you are trying to say...

Frustrating, isnt it? And I have only been back for one day.

Contemplation

PS - For anyone interested in reading ongoing discussion on the topics of petitions, boycotts, etc, please see:

Revising the list of Demands
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A526501

Guerrilla Tactics
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A529517

fora beneath the main Zaphodistas page
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A520769

latest updates at Zaphodista Communiqués
http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A526060

Contemplation,

What's especially funny is where DrGoof wrote on one of the moderation help question boards, asking why that "bigot" URL was NOT deleted from messages. (He was just pointing out inconsistencies.) The reply came from "h2g2 support," saying that the "bigot" URL was acceptable because they were talking about bigotry on the internet hypothetically, not referring to that specific URL. But the post by h2g2 support had been MODERATED! Someone had removed the URL written by "h2g2 support" who had been in the middle of explaining why it was acceptable to write that URL!!

Thanks for joining.

THE REVOLUTION WILL NOT BE TELE-TUBBIED!