h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.h2g2.com/A509339

I've just written this article on abortion, which may not be an altogether new subject, but I do think it has the most information and is less biased then some others I have come across.

I have researched the topic quite thoroughly, though there may be the occasional error (put it this way, I'm male), so I'm willing to work on it if need be.

I hate to say this... but I think this entry is missing that all important personal experience - as a result of which it reads in a rather dry manner - and perhaps doesn't get across how heart-wrenching a decision this is...

It just feels too... dry. Uninvolved. Detatched. I'd expect to read stuff like this in a biology textbook, not a guide to life...

You may get some personal experiences to which to add to your entry by reading through this talking point: http://www.h2g2.com/A472295 - alternatively, you might ask in askh2g2, or the writing workshop... but I do think that you need this real-life experience to be added in...

have you had a relative or friend who's had an abortion? perhaps you might ask them their opinion...

I tend to disagree - the headline says it all, and this is an entry about the ways and methods of an abortion. There are other topics around here which also were divided up into one entry which covered the more 'technical' (if I may use that term here) aspects and a second entry which covered people's experience and feelings. The 'talking point' entry will eventually grow into just this second entry, so why should these points be doubled here?

well, talking points don't often go into the edited guide - they tend to remain unedited - the abortion one (at http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A472295
) was created on the 14th Nov, so it's some time ago - I'd not expect this much time to be taken - so I don't think it's planning on entering the guide...

Anyway, what's much *more* significant is that there's an h2g2 project on just this topic: it's called "Woman's Health" and it's at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A534944 - I'll post a link to this thread there - see what happens...

Good idea, that's exactly the right place for it!

tstststs, you seem to be familiar with all and every corner of h2g2, I didn't know there was a university project in the making.

heh - I just make good use of the "search" function...

Do you ASSUME rape was an unpleasant experienc?!
Did you read what you just wrote there?!
That's why men shouldn't write about abortions, I guess...

*hits Lady Elly with the "bad generalisation" stick*

* steps aside, out of harm's way *

I don't care, Lucinda- as a woman, I was offended!
Don't worry, Bossel, I only bark...

I'll just step in here quickly to say that as a man (who's wife was raped previous to my meeting her and who's closest approximation to the experience of rape was having his appartment and personal space violated) that I too was offended by the casual and cold discussion and dismisal of the issue of rape.

My suggestion would be that you do not attempt to analyze the emotions a woman might feel having been violently assaulted with a sexual object. Neither you nor I are likely to every fully comprehend and empathize on more than a surface level.

I know that it must be more than the devistation I felt when I was robbed and, frankly, I am afraid to attempt to fully experience what might be there to any degree exceeding what I felt.

So, mention the possibility but don't attemot to go further.

By the same token, I have read enough articles an studies where men have attempted to simulate the experiences a woman undergoes during pregnancy and not one of them has attempt to simulate the moment of birth. I know that *I* would not have the courage to attempt such a thing. Facing that, I cannot imagine that I would write an article like this without feeling that while I have an uderstanding of the physical process, I could not possibly do more than say, here's what I found, these are the options, you're going to have to decide.

This in effect is what you have done except that there is a certain flippant manner to what you present, that I might admire in other situations but which contributes to the offense I take at the manner this was written.

So, I find that I am incompetant to do more than say that I don't thin this article is right but I can't really suggest anything except that you abandon it or pass it on to a woman.

Barton

THANK YOU, Barton!

on a side note...

> "If the abortion is much later than this, then a hysterectomy is performed"
uh, isn't a hysterectomy the surgical removal of the womb? Certainly, that's what the recc'd entry on hysterectomy says. The entry also fails to mention contraception as a way of avoiding abortion, and if it's going to mention abstention, then it ought to. Also, the comment on how to get an abortion would appear to be just the rules in England - they're different throughout the world. It's also a vast simplification.

I still feel that an entry on Abortion which doesn't mention the human side, or reference another entry which does, is fundamentally flawed - like an entry on Internet Pornography which doesn't mention the human issues. Oh well - we'll see what happens.

This post has been removed.

As Lucinda has pointed out, there are some factual problems in the portion of the entry that discusses how abortions are performed. The entry also doesn't mention at all pharmaceutical abortions (i.e., RU 486) that are now becoming more common in many countries.

In the section about reasons for abortions, the entry doesn't mention medical reasons, which is actually a big factor in many abortions. Some women have abortions because they discover after they've become pregnant that necessary treatment for a medical condition is incompatible with pregnancy (i.e., with some forms of chemotherapy for cancer), or that they have a medical condition which will be severely (and possibly fatally) aggravated by a pregnancy (such as some heart conditions).

I also find the comment about rape incredibly insensitive. In fact, this is the only time I've felt the urge to "Yikes" an entry solely because I find something offensive. (I'm not going to do it, though).

I also have a problem with adoption being presented as a "simple" solution. For a pregnant woman, there is absolutely *nothing* simple about going through a pregnancy and labor and then choosing to give that child to another family.

A hysterectomy has nothing to do with a Caesarian section, and neither are even vaguely related to late-stage abortions.

Since the title is: "Abortion: what it is and how to get one", I would have expected the second half of the title to get more space in the entry than the one paltry paragraph. Plus, that one paragraph is very obviously NOT a global perspective, which should be specified.

I also have some nit-picky comments about the entry, but I won't worry about those until the bigger issues are addressed.

Mikey

Ho hum - I'm not at all sure why the post above was hidden. So it goes - perhaps the poster would care to rephrase and repost?

All my disagreements belong to this post.

> "Abortion, at its simplest, is the termination (ending) of a pregnancy"

Lies: giving birth is not an abortion. Neither is the morning after pill. Neither is stillbirth.

> "There is also a third requirement: you have a desire to end your pregnancy."

Lies: some people are forced into having abortions.

> "2. You were raped, and don?t want to have to bring up a child that will remind you of your experience (assuming that it was a bad experience)."

Aside from the fact that this sentence is offensive, going through nine months of pregnancy is a similar level of reminding, and should be mentioned.

> "4. You?ve discovered that your child will have a major physical or mental disability, or giving birth may jeopardise your own life."

That's two points, not one.

Other missed reasons are the various other medical ones, which is a huge list on it's own. Also some people (hopefully none of them h2g2 researchers) will abort a foetus because it is of the wrong gender. There's also a posible desire not to have a child out of wedlock, for religious or social reasons. For those in marriages who've had an affair, there's a desire to not destroy that marriage by having a "love-child". Etc, etc.

> re: morning after pill

Mention of the side effects is needed. Details not needed, but a mention is.
Also mention that there are various forms of the morning after pill, with differing effects.

> "though this is handy for future ?accidents?"

And the quotes there are because...?

> "The downside is that you do have to go through giving birth"

Oh, and let's not forget about those nine months of pregnancy, with the associated risks of death, mass hormonal swings, and strangers wanting to touch your stomach all the time.

> "And there is nothing ethically wrong with it[adoption] either,"

That's certainly open to debate. Myself, I'd say that giving a child by adoption is a worse thing than simply not allowing that child to exist. Especially since there is a mass excess of babies who need adopting, so most of them end up being fostered or put into care instead.

Another alternative to abortion which should be mentioned is of course to go through pregnancy and birth, and keep the child despite the problems it may cause.

> "What happens when I have an abortion?"

I don't know, and after reading this section, I still don't know. This section needs to be considerably larger - like, about ten times larger. It needs to have the medical names of each type of abortion. It needs to have the side-effects and the possible problems with each. It also appears to be missing many of the methods.

> "The baby will then be delivered stillborn."

Let's just not mention the emotional trauma that this can cause, shall we?

> "There are other ?old wives tales? of how to terminate pregnancy, such as .... But doing this ... doesn?t usually work."

Doesn't *usually*?

> "How do I get an abortion?"

I didn't know before reading this entry, and I still don't know.

Are we going to just ignore backstreet abortionists and pretend they don't exist? What about the limits on time in terms of comparatively how easy it is to obtain the different methods?

In the UK, at least, certain doctors will never sign the piece of paper for an abortion, and they have no legal requirement to make women aware of their conscientious objection during a consultation.

Also in the UK, advice is (I believe but may be wrong) to go directly to family planning clinic, and bypass GP, so that "abortion" does not get on your permanent medical record and potentially bias future doctors and employers against you. Same advice for drugs/alcohol abuse.

Further research reveals that where this entry is talking about hysterectomy, it probably means hysterOTOMY. Anti-abortion campaigners tend to call hysterotomy hysterectomy because .... [complete this sentence in ten words or less to win a holiday!]

I've been reading the 'Abortion' entry referred to above, and the comments in this thread, and, on the whole, feel there is a lot of discrepancies in the article, and a lot of very valid comments made in this forum.

I would be very happy to include the topic of 'Abortion' in my project on Women's Health, and had already included it as a potential entry in the project. If anyone would like to contribute to a more comprehensive entry on 'Abortion', please could they either offer their services (if one or more people would like to take this subject on themselves) on my Women's Health project page, or if anyone would simply like to comment on any aspect of abortion, on the project's 'Abortion' page (I will drop the links back here in a moment).

I agree that a topic as emotive and subjective as this one requires some personal viewpoints, so if anyone would like to tell me their experiences of electing to have an abortion, or electing not to have an abortion, or other related experiences, I would be very happy to include them. If you do not want to put these comments in an open forum, you may e-mail them to me at [email protected] (I will also add this e-mail address to the relevant pages), indicating whether or not you wish to have your h2g2 persona credited in the article. Obviously, I will treat all such information in confidence.

Finally, another very valid article has been brought to my attention in this forum, namely 'Rape'. I think this is another topic which could be valuably included in the 'Women's Health' project, and again, if anyone would be interested in helping with this entry, their assistance would be most appreciated. Perhaps it would make a good 'talking point' at some stage?

~A~ Pegasus

Here are those links:

'Women's Health' project: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A534944
'Abortion' page: http://www.bbc.co.uk/h2g2/guide/A535132
My e-mail address: [email protected]

~A~

One of my gripes with this entry is that it does not acknowledge the actual meaning of the word. Abortion simply means the termination of a pregnancy - this article deals solely with surgical abortion - ie. medical intervention. 1 in 4 pregnancies ends in spontaneous abortion, ie. miscarriage. I think this definition should come into the opening of the article.