A Conversation for Motorbike Safety
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Peer Review: A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Absolutely Started conversation May 4, 2009
Entry: Motorbike Safety - A50845287
Author: Absolutely! - U181666
After 40 years on (and off) bikes, much research and many conversations, these are the things to remember regardsing motorbike safety.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
bobstafford Posted May 4, 2009
Good entry
Can you split the tips into sections it will make it easier to follow. For example:-
Speed
Breakes
Road conditions
Other Road users
Misc
Chuck in a few - If you are a car driver type tips.
And the words Bugg*** and Cra* though appriorate, will need substitutes.
Brilliant work this will save a neck or three.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Deadangel - Still not dead, just! Posted May 7, 2009
Bit crap really, with a couple of tips which actually increase danger.
Lets see, shall we...
1) "Assume the other buggers don’t see you
Because often they don’t. They’re just not looking for a vehicle as small as you are going as fast as you are. Use your headlights on bright out of town and drive defensively."
If you use your headlight during the day, especially in bright sunlight, you are breaking up your silhouette, which means you are actually less likely to be seen. Unless you're using a lens cover, or headlight other than white or yellow. Which, in Britain at least, is illegal.
2) You say in 18 to use both brakes, then in 19, immediately contradict it by only saying to cover the front brake. Yes, the front brake provides the majority of the braking, but it isn't as high a percentage in proper use as you'd think. The back brake is a far more powerful safety feature than most magazine scribblers would have you believe.
3) 37 and 38 should be a single comment - they both relate to adequate safety gear, because if the kit doesn't fit properly, it can't protect properly.
4) "Intersections are scary, so cower
Put another vehicle between your bike and the possibility of someone running the stop sign/red light on your right."
And what happens when you're turning right but no-one else is?
5) "Every-thing is harder to see after dark
Carry a clear visor and be supper careful after dark, especially during, peak hours, when the pubs shut, or in the early hours.
Better still try not to ride"
Like it or not, riding in adverse conditions is a part of life. Saying try not to is just plain idiocy. You should advise instead to learn the differences between riding at night and riding during the day. Something you can only really do by getting experienced at night riding somewhere safe, and then applying what you actually learn in general situations. Oh, and just for the record, dark visors are illegal in britain, and tinted are daylight use only (Yes, I do know that doesn't prevent their use, but you're still not supposed to advocate illegal activity).
6) "Take the panic out of panic stops
Develop an intimate relationship with your front brake. Seek out some safe, open pavement. Starting slowly, find that fine line between maximum braking and a locked wheel, and then do it again, and again. Don’t ride faster than you have practised stopping. Now there’s something to think about."
Again with the front brake only mentality. You have 2 brakes - use them both. And for the record, it's a lot easier to save a back brake lock-up than a front one, so learn to do that first - you're less likely to panic when you've learned a locked wheel isn't going to make you crash the bike.
Other than those, there's also the problem that the reasons given are totally inadequte for any proper explanation, they aren't in any logical order, (e.g. prop yourself, prep the bike, riding skills, riding situations etc).
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
bobstafford Posted May 7, 2009
Shows just what car drivers (me) know about bike safty I thought it was all right... Go with all Deadangels advice you need a bikers opinion not a car drivers.
Dont give up it needs saying.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Deadangel - Still not dead, just! Posted May 8, 2009
OK!
After having a chillout, I'd probably better apologise for the tone of my reply. It comes across as rather more bolshy than I'd intended originally. The Subject could do with some more airing, but I don't think this entry is it.
The entry as it stands, is basically a list of do and do not's. That won't make you a safer rider on it's own. You need to give people reasons to think through why the advice is there, and in cases of things the rider can do to improve their safety, examples they can practice, preferably in real world situations.
It might be an idea to add a comment in summary that safety is always going to include the rider. There is, and never will be, any situation that you get into, thst you can't either prevent or reduce injury or damage, IF you are aware of it in time.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Beatrice Posted May 10, 2009
I think there's some good stuff in this, and it could be worked up a bit to make a fine entry.
There's a wee bit of repetition (e.g the kit), and I wondered if it might be worth editing it down to a list of 42 - I know there's other entries in a similar vein.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
TonyM Posted May 10, 2009
A really valuable rough diamond that just needs a little bit of polishing - but must stay rough for effect.
Sorry Deadangel - I take your points about back brakes but you're trying to make something that's intentionally non-technical into a treatise, and I'm sure that wasn't the writer's intention.
Yes, there's a bit of repetition, but it's a WIP, isn't it, so that can be fixed - and 50 is a nice, round number that has a certain ring to it.
It's more than 40 years since I rode a bike, and even then I wouldn't have called myself a biker - it was just what I could afford at the time - but I found these tips valuable. I was particularly interested in the references to mesh gear and gloves, which didn't exist back then.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Absolutely Posted May 13, 2009
Deadangel, I have taken what you have said on board. Don't agree 100% with all but much good advice which I will attend to.
I wanted pithy points for bikers to absorb easily. Some will read lengthy articles some not.
Since it is a universal article (except that I have based it on a ride on the left side of the road situation) tinted visors exist, are used and I don't advocate their use where not legal.
Thanks for the interest and advice. I'll keep in touch.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Absolutely Posted May 13, 2009
Hi again,
1. Sorry can't agree at all on this one. Bright headlights they will (hopefully) see. Your silhouette they will, by and large not see. My years of experience and conversations with bikers and motorists have convinced me. At best let us agree to disagree on this one unless you have proof of some sort.
2. I should work on those two. Use both but cover the front one. You can't ride around covering the rear, you need to be balanced on the ball of you foot. Make sense?
3. They're both the same subject agreed, but two aspects which I felt should be emphasised. Also to be honest 50 Ways sounds, (to me) better than 49 ways.
4. Then you do your best. You can only do what you can do.
5. I agree with your point about learning how best to ride at night to minimise the risks when you have to, but since the risk increases exponentially I stick by "Try not to".
6. Good point, I'll adjust that and look at the order.
Cheers
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Absolutely Posted May 13, 2009
Thank you, I will work on an "If you are a car driver" list next after polishing this a bit, but just a bit.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Deadangel - Still not dead, just! Posted May 15, 2009
I've just had a re-read, and I think it's improved, but still not how I'd have put it, but then, I didn't write it.
Re the point 1 about headlights and silouette, I mentioned bright sunlight. Ordinarily, yes, having a headlight does make you more visible, but in bright conditions, having a headlight on can obscure you. Sorry, but no, I don't have actual evidence to that effect though.
Thanks for writing the entry.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Icy North Posted Jun 18, 2009
I like the rough style of this entry.
The most important thing about it is whether the advice is good. As I'm not a biker, I can't really tell. Is there any point which any of the h2g2 bikers still disagrees with? If not, then maybe it's ready to go?
We can always add more information or differences of opinion in footnotes, if we don't want to break the flow.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Beatrice Posted Jun 18, 2009
I'll make a point of going through it in more detail over the next few days.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Beatrice Posted Jun 19, 2009
OK, had another read through, and there's definietly some gems in there - personal favourites are numbers 7, 20, 24, 45 and 50.
Some of the terms sound a bit American, and I'm not sure what cross turners (#11) or hot cars (#15) are. The entry needs to state whether it's written for drive-on-the-right or left systems, and ensure all the advice is consistent.
Going 90mph? #19. No illegal activity!
28 is very like 22.
32 - Doing U-turns until they're automatic. Yes I can see the point, but it runs counter to the "always be on guard" message given elsewhere.
37 Needs a bit of re-wording and should be incorporated with 38.
40 - not sure I undertsand this one.
41. Don't follow.
43. I disagree with this one.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
bobstafford Posted Jun 19, 2009
This is a good point Beatrice but it can be altered to,
19. Keep the front brake covered
Save a single second of reaction time at 70 mph and you can stop 15 metres shorter. Think about that.
Please check the 15 meters is correct.
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
Icy North Posted Jun 19, 2009
Yes, it's 31.29 metres, according to http://www09.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=70+mph+1+sec
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Jun 21, 2009
Re: Headlights.
Note: I do not use my headlights in good light.
This is a very divisive issue. The basic pro thinking is that bright light = easy to see.
There are a couple of problems with this.
Firstly some (mainly the MCN race rep crowd in blighty) take the next logical step and use full beam all the time. This dazzles other drivers just as it would at night and is dangerous. Do not do.
Secondly the outline thing. The RAF did test a system with lights on the leading edge and sensors on the trailing. This adjusted the lights to the ambiant light conditions behind (with various complicated processing I don't understand!) and it was pretty effective, doing a good job of making the wings blend into the background and reduce the profile.
They did not proceed with it however, not sure why. I got the above from a mate who is an RAF museum curator (or assistant curator I think, there's only 2 of them really running the show by all accounts!) so shall have to ask about why cancelled.
The key points were that it was the blend with the ambient light. So a dipped or side beam will have a blending effect but only in specific matching conditions. I've seen it with silver cars with dipped beam coming down a hill in overcast but normally lit conditions. So I'm not convinced this effect is that much of a problem.
OTOH the two which do convince me that it isn't worth doing are
a) They ain;t seen you. If they ain't looking at you then doesn't matter how many lights you have. Sure we've all seen the driver that doesn't notice the sirens and blue lights of the emergency services behind them so what chance we got (the argument against is that it only has to work once to be worth it)
Secondly, in Australia they trialled daytime headlights for a year making it comnpulsory. There was no significant effect on accidents. So they dropped it. A full scale trial by their safety bods found no effect. So I'll just save me lightbulbs in that case.
Other than that not bad. I think the armour stuff is rather over eggeg but there's always gonna be disagreements on such stuff.
The most important points are made well:
1) It ain;t their fauly, they're all idiots and you should expect them to behave like it.
2) Ride defensively.
3) now your limits
A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
IctoanAWEWawi Posted Jun 21, 2009
oh, on brakes - worth mentioning.
A locked back wheel can be steered and controlled. Practice it if you can (they taught me on me test but that were years ago now so ).
A locked front wheel is a crash.
Grabbing the brakes is more likely to cause an accident than avoid one. Practice emergency stops in different conditions and surfaces.
I'd counter the covering the brake thing. If you do that you are reduce the control you have over the bars and thus reducing your control of the vehicle and your ability to react. Another one that will no doubt split the audience.
And finally. If there is no where to go, no sweve possible and you can't brake in time, low side the bike.
Kearn what a low-side and a high-side are, how they happen and in the case of the low-side learn how to make it happen (theoretically unless you have a nice soft field and a ratty old bike - it won;t make your brand new shiney bike look very good afterwards!).
After all if your gonna hit it, make sure the bike hits it before you and not after. And it is better not to be full through its windows or into the ditch.
I've had to use it once, and I'm glad I knew how to do it.
Key: Complain about this post
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Peer Review: A50845287 - Motorbike Safety
- 1: Absolutely (May 4, 2009)
- 2: bobstafford (May 4, 2009)
- 3: Deadangel - Still not dead, just! (May 7, 2009)
- 4: bobstafford (May 7, 2009)
- 5: Deadangel - Still not dead, just! (May 8, 2009)
- 6: Beatrice (May 10, 2009)
- 7: TonyM (May 10, 2009)
- 8: Absolutely (May 13, 2009)
- 9: Absolutely (May 13, 2009)
- 10: Absolutely (May 13, 2009)
- 11: Deadangel - Still not dead, just! (May 15, 2009)
- 12: Icy North (Jun 18, 2009)
- 13: Beatrice (Jun 18, 2009)
- 14: Beatrice (Jun 19, 2009)
- 15: bobstafford (Jun 19, 2009)
- 16: h5ringer (Jun 19, 2009)
- 17: Icy North (Jun 19, 2009)
- 18: bobstafford (Jun 19, 2009)
- 19: IctoanAWEWawi (Jun 21, 2009)
- 20: IctoanAWEWawi (Jun 21, 2009)
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