h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

This post has been removed.

Have you tried this bit yet?

"If you disagree with this moderation decision please reply to this email
and one of the h2g2 Editors will respond within normal working hours."

Waz (curious)

Yes.


Whole sections of the thread AFTER HOW MANY DAYS have been given the hatchet touch. Making the post look worse by the moderation, not better.

For example the removal of a link to a childrens toy that names two places that sell them, if somebody was a singed-up member online.


I say signed-up as you cannot make a purchase direct from the site unless you sign-up. Since there was no indication from me that is what people should do, I see no way it is against the <./>HOUSERULES</.> or any BBC policy.

The way the moderators left it, was frankly disgusting. Would it have been the end of the world if the had put:

[Link to mainstram retail company removed]

Argos* is now agains the hose rules?

*There are other retailers available on the planet.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/F15750?thread=409347 Oops?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/F105534?thread=291539&latest=1#p6184870 Oh, dear, oh dear. Passing on information is a problem? :-/

Is this an advert? http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/plain/F106918?thread=429344&latest=1#p5403810 Or, just 'creachy' telling us about what he is involved in, I think the latter.

Well on the face of it, (haven't time to follow the thread just now, besides which it sounds as if much of it's been removed), it doesn't sound much different to the Trinny and What's her name programme listing where they bought each item with the price attached.

Doesn't Changing Rooms do that too?

Mind you, I've always been surprised that that was done on the BBC.

Specsavers. 'Peet' said specsavers in his journal!

OMG no mention that there are other places one can go to get eye glasses.

Will the BBC have to close-down for being in breach of it's mandate now? Don't think so.

I say: GET A GRIP!

It's the way moderators make thing worse that really goats me, half a message is worse than no message.

Yes, but I think that part is something we probably have to live with because I'm pretty sure they're not paid any thinking time.

At least those of us familiar with the site know how the moderation system works and can make allowances for that side of the issue.

If posts are getting pulled merely because a brand name is used that's new to me.

It's not mentioning a brand name that violates house rules. It's the combination of recommending that people buy a certain product by a certain brand, giving the price, and listing the link. All those in combination can certainly be construed as advertising.

It's one thing for me to post in my journal how excited I am that I was able to get a new mac laptop for cheap.

It's another thing for me to recommend that others buy a certain model, and give them the details of where they should get it and how much they should pay.

Regardless, I'd think it should be obvious that if you've had a posting moderated for breaking the house rules, reposting that same post will ALSO be considered a violation of the house rules.

In addition, modded posts can be edited by the researcher and resubmittted to the mods to be replaced (if they now pass the House Rules).

For instance, it would be really helpful if post 1 of this thread was edited and resubmitted and then we would know what is going on. Editing does require some thought as to how to *describe* what happened without repeating the original breach. Not impossible though.

I thought that you could only re-write entries not posts.

Jab - obviously you are annoyed by this to say the least so why not email the italics directly at h2g2DOTsupportATbbcDOTcoDOTuk

You know they can't reply outwith UK office hours so nothing can be done anyway until tomorrow.

If, you respond to the e-mail, you can put you 'edited' version in with that e-mail.


However, the 'system' as it is, means your responding to a 'remover' not a 're-placer' procedure.


So, if you get an e-mail that says your post has been removed, fair enough, until you find that is a false statement.


As you read on, it mentions a 'broken link' or unsuitable etc. etc.


Next you look at you post STILL there but edited and, so it has NOT been removed, but left in a messy state.



What is wrong with "this post has been hidden pending moderation" that does give the user time to edit, and respond in the standard way.


Simply, I think 'http' links should be delt with as any other moderation, it's less offensive to the party being moderated, and any third party reading the thread.


On the point of posting about things / places to buy from / price ranges.

The term 'steet price' means you may be able to buy cheaper, or have to pay more, depend on how an individual wishes to shop, pay p&p or take advantage of free christmas delivery, or the common one of spend more than £100 it will be shipped for free.


We live in a world of trade. If somebody thinks there product is good, then they may want to put their name to it, a brand.


Branded good are a way of the world, * BBC * is a brand just the same as any other.


I have noticed there are certain http sites that don't start with http://bbc.co.uk yet are never removed. Could it be something to do with any link to BBC worldwide? Flextech? Telewest? Yoomedia? Do they remain on the basis any publicity is good publicity, any complaint would only be seen as somebody moaning, least the brand is getting a mention, in the public eye?


The e-mail answer I got was that my link had pointed to direct internet sellers. Err, no. The in adition to having highstreet stores offer a view of product via the web. To buy you would have to become registed with them. The other links pointed to information pages from makers, that do not sell direct to the public.


It's well posted on the BBC pages, they accet no resonibilty for external links anyway, plus they make any external link suitably clear it's not one of theirs.


By us not being allowed to communicate a personal preference, what is the BBC doing?


Yes one of my post only named one maker, as one specific product. If people on h2g2 only think that you can only buy a PDA from one maker, at one place, or that there are only the brands that I mention that make computer mother boards. Then I'd be looking at a wedsite full of very, very dumb people; the BBC are promoting a false image of it's users in that case.


I'd go as far to ask is the BBC is being anti-trade under EU law, for not allowing us to communicate places to buy from, prices good are available at.


My uncle purcased a VCR the other day, from a supermarket, it was a 'brand' and it was terrible. No V*d*o*l*s* we looked at the web site for the shop, ford the one with the function required was pitured, and at the same price as this 'right-duffer' he had. I may wish to write about the day in a journal, only to have it removed for mentioning a brand, a retailer, a price all in the same post, is this trully accepable? Would you not wish to comunicate to peers about things to avoid, as much as thing that are worth having?

The Editors never discuss individual moderation issues onsite.

I don't think any of us should either.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/dailyemail

Today I was told how much faster the Sony Playstation PSIII chips will be, with a news link.

What no menion of the new Xbox 2?

ie. Xbox Next, Xbox Next HD, Xbox Next PC.


* There are other brands on games console available. *


How the heck could the BBC ensure full list of all the new ranges, it can only report on what is knows about 'on the day' and wait to be updated. I'd say the very same applies to 'researches' on h2g2.


Re: Computer Mother boards, I happend to notice MESH are sticking with Asus in the form of an A8V-Delux.


Shame there is no interaction about the pros and cons of various items. If your an AMI BIOS fan, then the Asus might be for you, if your an overclocker, maybe the Abit will be your bag.


It's left for people to comunicate. We are not allowed to post pictures on h2g2, now it would appear we can't post pointers objects to view.


As I did post a price of a voIP phone, another researcher kindly pointed out the same item was available 'on-sale' elsewhere. Discovery, and sharing information sound's good to me.


My journal was not even a list of things that people should buy, it never said "I recomend" it was just a list of stuff for me to have a closer look at later, what on first view I may show a "wish" - not a "want" to own, in the guise of a 'Christmas list.' If people I know happen to read it, least they then would know what to get me, and as the list got bigger, there could have been room for the £9.87 CD or two.



Any user, at any time can have post removed. They may not wish to 'argue' the point, or have left h2g2. So the post is gone. What about others that may have read that post some time back, want to reference it again, but, it's gone. Saving post that don't harm anybody, or can be countered with other opinion, worth hope?

"The Editors never discuss individual moderation issues onsite."

Untrue. They do when it suits them.

To show the system working...



-----


From: "h2g2 Feedback" View Contact Details
To: "Jab" , "h2g2 Feedback"


Yes, that's fine. Thanks Jab.

The reason that we don't discuss individual moderation decisions onsite is ALWAYS to protect the individual user concerned - never to simply hide from discussion. If you're happy to post our response online, then that's entirely your decision.

We understand that having your post hidden must have been irritating for you, so thank you very much for being so understanding on this matter. Sometimes it's equally important for the h2g2 staff as it is for our wonderful researchers to abide by the rules of the site.

Cheers Jab!

The h2g2 Editors
-----Original Message-----
From: Jab [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: 03 December 2004 17:57
To: h2g2 Feedback
Subject: Request to post this *list* of e-mails on-site...


Hi you'all...

I'd like to put this as apost in the journal in question, it explains the MJ thread to 'the reader'

-----

h2g2 Feedback wrote:
Hi Jab,



h2g2 has never allowed commercial links, except where the link takes the reader to a page that is not primarily about *selling* products. There is a significant difference between information regarding a product's existence and a page geared towards a direct sale, including pricing, from a specific retailer. In your example, the Digital link is informative, but it does not offer an opportunity to buy a digital freeview box on that page (in fact, the first opportunity to buy a product from that page is at least four clicks away). The links included in your postings were failed because they link directly into an online shop, a clear contravention of the BBC Terms which are available online here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/terms/



Clearly, we cannot check every single post or entry ourselves - we rely on the Community to self-police in a way. If you encounter a direct link to a commercial page, you can alert us to it by pressing the complaints button and it will be reviewed by the Moderation team.



Any time we are informed of a potentially unsuitable link, the link itself is checked by the Moderators according to the BBC Producer Guidelines, which you can read yourself at: http://www.bbc.co.uk/info/policies/producer_guides/



We hope that this explains why we had to take the decision to remove the postings.



Regards,



h2g2 Feedback