h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://www.h2g2.com/A435719
What with drug cheats being so much in the news lately, I thought it may be interesting to have a look at the gender cheats.

Interesting

A bit more detail on each of the cheats you mention would be nice - Might be fun to have more info... yes, mentioning of this androgen defficiency thingumy would be good - a pitfall of the current system, perhaps.

Has the same ever happened in reverse in, for example, ice skating/gymnastics/etc, where being female is an advantage?

Bit more detail on how they do chromosome testing, perhaps?

Are you there Ozzywiz? This one's interesting too. I've never really got the hang of this cheating athletes thing. It's not as though every man has hormone levels identical to every other bloke and every woman has the same hormone balance as every other gal. We all seem to be scattered along a continuum hormone-wise. Should it therefore be fair that a woman with a tiny splash more testosterone than another contestant gets an unfair advantage. If the other woman tries to even out the imbalance, that's not allowed. Is sport really a hormone contest, do you suppose?

Sal

It's also worth mentioning the people who are XXY (6 women per every 1000) - they may appear female (in *all* ways), but are genetically considered male because of the Y chromosome, and are always sterile. I know there's been a few Olympic athletes thrown out over this. What really sucks is these are almost always women who are unaware of their "chromosomal anomaly" until they show up for the Olympics and are kicked out.

The women who are XY's are the ones with androgen insensitivity, and there have been cases where these women have been allowed to compete as women in the Olympics.

Here's a *really* good website with more info:
http://www.tehelka.com/oly091300sextest.htm

Mikey

That's an extremely interesting article Mikey. It really underlines what I was getting at. It seems an absolute disgrace to me that people can be discriminated against in that way. The IOC seems to be trying for an even playing field but how is it possible? Some contestants will always have more of what it takes - and what it takes is often (if not always) determined by the hormone levels in particular individuals.

Sal

But somewhere there /must/ be drawn a line. I refuse to call a Y-shaped, bearded, deep-voiced and testero..-laden entity a woman.

Absolutely I echo the comments made earlier on the need for what is chromosome testing.

I may be a bit wrong here, but isn't the result of all this chromosome stuff that there is no hard and fast sex, only genders?

Also I find myself wondering if the testing still goes on? I suspect not as drugs are the bigger worry nowadays.

Finally I think one line in your entry might be offensive to some people. "not a great loss to sport if three women could beat him!"
Personally I wasn't offended and understand the vein it was meant in. What's anybody else think?

Y-shaped?

Y-shaped: my way of explaining a narrow pelvis, wide shoulders, and legs in parallel

I have slightly mixed feelings about this Bossel and Bright Blue. There are sports for women and men and there are Para Olympics for people who have disabilities. If your hormones are not in the acceptable range however, it seems you're knackered.(Is that a pun?) You may be absolutely excellent at sport. It may be the great love of your life. But you're barred because you look like a woman, have the anatomy of a woman but you also have this hormonal 'advantage'. It wouldn't surprise me if all the big winners had at least a slight hormonal or chemical advantage, in any case.

I'm a bit surprised to find I even have an opinion on the matter because I've always loathed sport. It's just that it seems so unfair.

Sal

Well they can always compete in the men's competitions. Probably get lots of sponsorship, too.

Sure, they're unlikely to do terribly well. But then, I'm not likely to do terribly well, cos of my genetics, and I'm not complaining, am I?

And if XXY can take part and have an advantage over 'normal' (didn't find a better word) XY, then where's the Olympics for the latter?

Is that true? Can people who seem to be women compete with men in the Olympics if they choose to do so?

I'm not complaining because of my inability to win either. I'm whinging on behalf of others. I think people who've put so much effort and dedication into training for a sport they love, only to be told they're made of the wrong stuff, are entitled to be upset.

Sal

While on the subject of bias, it is pretty much accepted that to be a world class athlete it helps to be tall. There are very sports (if any) where it doesn't. Go on prove me wrong now ....

Not sure if my first post was taken the right way. I was trying to say that I think the entry needs to quantify all the stuff about chromosome testing. I wasn't saying it is necessarily a good thing.

In truth though why should the Olympics be split by sex or the Paralympics by disability. Surely it should be fastest 10 people compete. Doesn't matter whether they are men or women, that is true equality (except for slow people).

BTW did you know there are 27 gold medal events just for the 100metres in the Paralympics. Maybe I've could get a gold if they create a classification for people who are 6'2", quite good at sport and wear Bright Blue Shorts?!?

Anyway this is all off in the land of sport sociology. Aren't we an intelligent bunch.

I probably got the wrong end of the stick BBS. Perhaps you're right about the division by sex. After all, women often do better than men in endurance events. It has something to do with having a bit more fat to draw on I think.

Do men ever do that synchronised swimming? I wonder what the ancient Greeks would've made of that.

Sal

and for some reason, Men's beach volleyball isn't as popular as woman's... Can't think why

Re Bright Blue Shorts' theory that some people may be offended by the line "he can't have been a great loss to sport if three women could beat him" .....

Answer me this, Bright Blue: Would you pay good money to go and watch Maurice Green run the 100metres at the Olympics if three women could beat him?

You're correct - I wouldn't pay good money to watch Maurice Green run the 100 metres at the Olympics if three women could beat him. But then I wouldn't pay it if three men could beat him either. Point is I wouldn't pay good money to watch Maurice Green if three people could beat him, their sex is immaterial.

As I said before, personally I wasn't offended I see the humour in your line. Some people however might think differently. I don't consider myself particularly PC because I would probably say the same sort of thing (in fact I have done). Usually though among friends or with a massive smile on my face to indicate a lack of seriousness.

Unfortunately your comment is in the public domain where people dont necessarily know you and could get the wrong idea. I was raising it as a possible issue and did throw it open to the community. Could be it's no problem.

Moving on, the stuff about the East Germans reminded me of the USA swimmer Shirley Babashoff who competed at Montreal and got cheated out of Gold. I was reading an article about her and she said that when she got to the changing rooms she heard these voices and thought she'd gone in the men's, only to find out that she was in fact correct in the first place!

.....but, but, but ..... it was three WOMEN he was competing against. They beat him. I suppose I could call them persons, if you like, then maybe the offendees about whose sensibilities you are concerned, won't notice. They would still be women, though. Women can't run as fast as men. They are smaller. A man who can be beaten by three women is a sadder case than one who can be beaten by three men.