h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

OK but it extends the subject beyond the original. This is not meant to be an investigation into Islam, the Koran or anything else. If you do that it opens up a huge area of debate. Do it by all means but my entry is a simple question. Nobody (yet) has refuted it.

What is the KISS principle?

BTW, Entries that are going to be part of the Edited Guide should not just pose questions they should inform.

HELL

Keep It Simple, Stupid!

(I'm a founder member of the Campaign for the Repudiation of Acronymic Practices)

On the matter of keeping it simple, I'd still endorse a change of the title.

HELL

And you open up a whole new can of worms.
Stick to the KISS principle.

Why do you think that would be opening a can of worms? The Koran is the Koran, what you do with it is Islam. In your Entry you simply look at the text in the book, and its simplest straight interpretation. You deliberately don't go any deeper, right? So?

HELL

NO. In the spirit of the Guide I ask (and hope answer) one question. I can and have written books on other aspects of Islam but this thread is about one thing only. If that is wrong and you can tell me 'why', I will happily withdraw it.

I read somewhere (I'm trying to find it) that the Islamic prohibition of alcohol dates to the Crusades.

Don't withdraw it! I think that all this Entry needs is very minor modifications, for example the title. In my opinion it could also provide some more information for dummies like me who have no idea about this topic. For example, I don't see the connection between the Koran and Islam, in the same sense that I don't see a connection between the bible and catholicism.

I'll try to explain this: Rules and codes-of-conduct are distilled from these books by scholars and religious authorities as a service for those that don't want (or don't have the time) to get deep into the theological details of their religion, but still want to escape eternal damnation. OK, so a religion is to a great extent interpretation of old scriptures. The proof of this is that only a small minority of christians and muslims follow the bible or the koran literally. They are perceived by other, by my standards more normal, followers as not quite up-to-date. Valid, yes, but leading an archaic way-of-life.

So, in your Entry you describe some passages of the Koran that deal with the topic of being inebriated. My question is: Is this Islam? Am I likely to find an Islamic scholar who says: "Yes... It is written that way, but a) you don't understand the original Arabic and b) there is the interpretation of _whoever_... So: No alcohol!" Forgive me if I don't know the right names, but there are interpretations 'strong and weak hadiths' etc... which are not written down explicitly in the Koran, but that are fundamental parts of the Islam. You have similar things going on in the catholic church (celibacy, women, inquisition) and in the jewish faith (torah versus talmud)... OK, this is going far, but I don't see why you equate The Koran with Islam. Alternatively, you could explain why you could be right.

Phew... Sorry...

It is also my understanding that Edited Guide Entries (as a sub-group of all Entries in the Guide) should be informative, and not just posing questions. Right now your Entry reads like this:

"Alcohol & Islam"
1- Alcohol is forbidden in Islam
2- Why is that, if there is no clear reference to this in the Koran?

The version *I* would like to see in the *Edited* guide is a little bit different - you wouldn't have to change the contents much (BTW):

"Alcohol & The Koran"
1- Alcohol is (taken as) forbidden in Islam
2- Islam is based on the Koran
3- These are the passages in the Koran that deal with the subject:...
4- These passages are usually interpreted by Scholars like this:...
5- Conclusion: The prohibition of Alcohol is (not) a direct consequence of Islam, but has other roots.

Do you see the subtle difference? Or am I being too bitchy about this? Is there any way you could go in my direction?

HELL

(TonsilRevenge) – yes – spot on and the whole damned thing goes back to the crusades. Then - as now the makers of arms controlled the economy. Religiion, booze the lot were used to sell the latest, the best, the cutting edge - you cant bend it – swords, shields, F16?thread="smiley - bubbly" title="bubbly" class="smiley" src="http://www.h2g2.com/h2g2/skins/Alabaster/images/Smilies/f_bubbly.gif"/>

Hell Scout
The Koran is Islam – even though there are many different braches Sunny, Shitie, (now politely called Shi’ites) Whaabis etc. THAT is the point. I respect your point but you haven’t read the book. I am not making a comparison with Judaism, Christianity, Hinduism or anything. I am just pointing out the fact that Islam (as it is touted today) appears to condem alcohol but there is nothing (in the Book) that condems it.
Why change the title?
There have been no remarks from any Muslims.

Hi,

There has been no remarks from Muslims because to my knowledge there is only one Muslim reguler on Here. Which happens to be me, and Hell just sent me your way soooooo where to begin.

First of all congerats for doing the usual of not printing the full context of passages, but I'll forgive you for that, as your not trying to discredit Islam.

Anyway there are some very simple reasons why Muslims do not drink Alcohol, mainly:

The Holy Quran, 2.219: They ask thee concerning wine and gambling. Say: "In them is great sin, and some profit, for men; but the sin is greater than the profit." They ask thee how much they are to spend; Say: "What is beyond your needs." Thus doth Allah Make clear to you His Signs: In order that ye may consider-

The Holy Qur'an, 2.220: (Their bearings) on this life and the hereafter.
In case your wondering the word wine comes from the Arabic word Khamr which literally means 'the fermented juice of the grape'. And is applied analogy to all fermentad liqour, and by further analogy to any intoxicating liquer or drug. This is because in Mecca and the sorrounding area the alcohol around was 99 percent wine and 1 percent other types of intoxicating liquid.

This comes about because in the book Al-Halal wal Haram fil Islam (The Lawful and the Prohibited in Islam) written by Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi it states the following:

“The first declaration made by the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, concerning this matter was that not only is Khamr (wine or alcohol) prohibited but that the definition of Khamr extends to any substance that intoxicates, in whatever form or under whatever name it may appear. Thus, beer and similar drinks are haram.

The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was once asked about certain drinks made from honey, corn, or barley by the process of fermenting them until they became alcoholic. The Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, succinctly replied, "Every intoxicant is Khamr, and every Khamr is haram." Reported by Muslim.)

And `Umar, may Allah be pleased with him, declared from the pulpit of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, that "Khamr is that which befogs the mind." (Reported by Al-Bukhari and Muslim.)

And just so you know, this is all taken and based from and on the hadith. Which I will explain in a short while.


Another verse about alcohol is as follows:

The Holy Quran, 5.90: O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.

The Holy Quran, 5.91: Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allah, and from prayer: will ye not then abstain?

The stones referred to is that they (the people of that time) used to have stone columns or alters which they would pour oil onto for consecration, or slabs where meat was sacrificed to idols. Or in other words all Idolatrous and superstitious behaviour and practices are being comdemmed. For example the Ansab was a common object of worship in Arabia before Islam.


Now let me explain in brief what the Ahadith essentially is.
The Ahadith is a writtend acount of the things thr Prophet Muhammad said and did. It was recorded by his follows as he did any thing, and so we have a written account of the things he said and did. The Holy Qur'an is basically the law book and the rules, while the Hadith is the way to impliment those rules. For example the Qur'an tells Muslim to pray five times a day but it does not say how to pray. That comes from the hadith.

The two are interconnected so if youfind something in the Qur'an and don't know what it means exactly youcan usually find a relevent Hadith of how to put that into practise.

I hope that helps.

Adib

from what i was told, the whole issue came up when some of the closer friends of the prophet got drunk and miss-behaved in public. so the whole forbidding of intoxicants was more done to control social bahavior - maybe (shruggs) i'm not an islamic scholar like adib.

Hell, i'm not trying to go off topic here, just an example of the different interpretations of the rule:

few years ago the company i was working with was going to import a medical dis-infection concentrate. the producers contacted us, because for saudi arabia they had to mix the alcohol into the concentrate before shipping it, because, s.a. doesn't produce (and probably even import) pure alcohol.

in iran we didn't have that problem, medical alcohol is produced and distributed under the supervision of the MOH without any problems.

of course that doesn't cover the whole thriving home-made intoxicants industry...

Actaully Nim you raise a good point (as usual), with the whole medicine thing.

Islam forbids the drinking and eating (used as an ingrediant) of alcohol. But if there is no alternative then it is permissible to use alcohol for medical reasons. I.e to disinfect a wound, I don't recommend it as it stings like crazy.

Plus Alcohol is non permissable in this living state because people are not perfect and so can do wrong. Alcohol can bring out the worst in people and lead to them to cause pai to others. Plus large quantities of it are harmfull.

Muslims believe that in paradise you can drink Alcohol as firstly you can not harm your body with it and that secondly when in paradise you will be in a state of perfection meaning that no evil will come from it as you will no longer have such qualities with in you.

Adib

Hmmm... 'Dosis sola facit venenum' - Dosage alone makes the poison

HELL

Exactly right. Islam is very strict on things like this. My example was not very good, as there are alternative things you can use to clean a wound easyl available. The case being Islam forbids even the smallest amount of Alcohol but if some one is in a physical life and death situation and the only thing around that can or might stop death is alcohol related then it can be taken. Otherwise it can not.

Every one seems to have gone quite on here, wonder why.

Adib

I have actually seen three Omanis die from drinking cologne. Had they had access to beer they would still be alive. I arrived too late. If you study the figures for the import of scents, colognes etc to the stricter Middle East countries you will find that they are staggeringly high - far more than even the smelliest people need. If you look at the hospitals (which you can't) there is an astonishingly high rate of death from alcoholic poisoning.

I will answer 'Hell' later. I have been away for a week in a Moroccan shanty town, trying to arrange Internet access!

For wounds, particularly burns, urinating on it is far better than alcohol. Mind you - it could depend on how much you have had to drink.

Reply to Adib.
Thanks for the comments. Yes I have read the Ahadith as well as the Kitab Al-Irshad and you are right – they more openly condemn alcohol. But they are interpretations of the Koran and the sayings of the Prophet Mohammed – not the real thing. There are many, many commentaries but – to me –they are just that and the trouble with all religions is that we end up being asked to accept someone’s interpretation. This goes back throughout history and all the monotheist religions. The fact that there are different branches of Islam bears this out and when they are quite happy to kill each other (and themselves) on the grounds that they are right and everyone else is wrong, makes me think that this is not actually as it was meant to be. I had deliberately restricted my piece to the Koran and what IT says (I will check out the verses you quote and they are - perhaps – worth adding to my piece.
Thanks for the comments anyway.