h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

thanks for checking it out for us and for your comments, roza89e! I have changed the footnote as you suggested.

glad you found it useful!


Mikey

Gosho -- I think that information is all important, but I guess my problem with putting it all at the beginning is that it's completely focused on *writing* for the Edited Guide, which is not what this page is all about. After all, we already have a page that's all about writing for the EG, and it's the Writing Guidelines. I want this page to be about the EG in general, and how it involves the entire community in different ways, so I don't want to start with a heavy focus on just the people who write for it.

I have, however, tried to incorporate bits and pieces of what you suggested where they seemed to fit -- let me know what you think.

If you're interested, I think a revision to the Writing Guidelines to incorporate some of your wording would be great.

It looks better Mikey Having said that I want to say something which might make you think "WTF? I put his suggestions in the entry, the ungrateful little toerag "

"which is not what this page is all about"... "I want this page to be about the EG in general"... "so I don't want to start"
This isn't a PR thread for a solo entry, it's a collaborative project for something that hopefully will eventually become an official h2g2 Help Page. We're all going to have different visions of what this page should be for and what the overall message should be. I never considered that all the sections about reading, reviewing and writing for the EG should be in there, but I can see how they would benefit the page.

If someone makes a suggestion for the page, whether it be a line or two or an entire section, and the concensus is that it should be included, then it should go in. If the concensus is that it's a bad idea or if no-one expresses a view either way then it shouldn't go in.

You deserve a big for the work you've put into this Mikey - I tried writing one a year ago and just sat there looking at a blank text box until I gave up, not knowing where to start.

Hmmm..... Myself, I wouldn't be doing this if I wanted yet another page about how to write for the EG -- we already have one official one at Writing-Guidelines, and quite a number of good unofficial ones. And we also have a page about writing for the Guide in general, at <./>Contribute</.>. Yes, both of those could use some updating, but that's not what I volunteered to do here.

If that's what people want, rather than an actual introduction to the EG, that's not really something I'd be interested in working on right now -- other people are certainly free to do so, though. My biggest priority is creating a page that explains to the *entire* community what the EG is and how they can be involved -- it would be great if it could become an official help page or whatever at some point, but it's something I'll pursue regardless.

It's not that I don't want to take people's comments on board -- I posted it here in the CWW because I *do* want to. But no, I'm not interested in making changes that would completely alter the _aim_ of the entry. If someone submits the beginnings of an entry on poultry to the CWW, it doesn't get changed to an entry on chickens just because that's what many people in the thread would like to see.

True, but that's not a valid comparison because the poultry entry wouldn't have come out of another discussion where a number of people said 'we need an entry on poultry' and then one person went and wrote it.

I like the page we've got here and I hope it's adopted by the Eds. It isn't exactly what I would have written, but then I didn't write it and no-one else has said that it's not what we should have. I'm content with the shape of it and consider it something of a privilege to be able to contribute to what might become an official h2g2 page.

OK, I've been going through and trying to condense things a bit -- it's a bit of a balancing act between wanting all the important information there, but not wanting to have something too long to be read.

Here are some of the edits I've made -- it would be great if anyone could tell me whether they think the entry would be better with or without the stuff I've cut.

1) I've cut this chunk -- "Once a Scout picks your entry, the selection in reviewed by one of the staff editors - if it is approved, your entry is on its way to the Edited Guide! First, an extra copy of your entry will be made, and given to a Sub-EditorThis is another volunteer group. for some spit and polish - it's this copy that will go into the Edited Guide, but you still get to keep the original as well. The day your entry appears on the Front Page, you'll get a reminder email so that you don't miss your big day."

And in its place, just linked to the "What happens after your entry is picked" page, at <./>SubEditors-Process</.>

2) I added in a bit about searching to see if there were any other entries on the same topic.

3) I do feel like the second paragraph of the writing section is too long -- any suggestions for condensing? I've tried splitting it in half (it and the third paragraph were at one point all one), but I'm not sure that really helps all that much.

4) As much as I dislike the idea myself, I have tried adding a 'jump' index at the top -- do people think this helps, or will it just encourage people to skip over all the bits they should know?


Mikey

I like the index - it seems to me that, coming to the page for the first time, I would read it all; coming back to it for reference, I could go straight to where I wanted to be.

Well, it makes sense to me

OK, so in it stays.

Anything else people want to suggest?

This is a great start, Mikey, and I'm really pleased someone is willing to take on this job.

That being said, I have a few suggestions - which is why I'm here, of course.

1. I know you don't want the entry to just be about writing for the EG, but under the section about writing for it maybe you could include some dos and don'ts, that sort of thing. Make it really obvious what's expected and what isn't.

2. Maybe sort of describe some types of entries to write or that you can find in the EG. Geographical entries, historical entries and the like. You ought to link within this entry to lots and lots of other EG entries. When I first came here I did a *lot* of reading of the EG - still do - and I've tried to learn by example and write as such. Hopefully our other young and curious hopefuls can do the same.

3. I honestly can't remember if you've said this or not, and I'm sorry if you have, but it seems to me that you ought to stress that although there is a whole community around the site that doesn't include the EG, and that you don't *have* to be involved with the EG to be a part of h2g2, the EG is how things really started and still, at least in my opinion, remains the core of the project.

Those are just a couple things - I still want to stress that I'm really glad you've taken this on - better you than me!

Hi, emr, thanks for the feedback!

1. We already have a whole paragraph on do's and don'ts, are there specific areas that you think we should go into more detail on? Or should I just highlight existing section with a change in formatting, like making it into a bulleted list?

2. Well, there is a section all about reading EG entries, and different ways to find ones you're interested in. And that section is put up at the beginning for a reason, to get people to try and do that first. I could add something to the very beginning about the different 'types' of entries, but I'm having a hard time coming up with a list of types that is useful without being either too long or too narrow. Any suggestions? I really would like to avoid adding much length to the existing entry. Maybe add a fifth bullet to the very first list, something like

"About more topics than most of us can imagine, from entries about your local pub to entries about science and history. We have entries about how to do something, how something works, and how to get somewhere -- we even have an entry about (some really random but interesting topic)."

3. There's a whole section at the end about how the EG isn't everything -- is there something specific you'd like to see added there?


Mikey

1. I was thinking more along the bulleted list lines - I'm a bulleted list type, though, so that may just be me.

2. I like the sentence you've suggested there. Maybe every one of those 'topics' that you've mentioned could be linked to a different entry. I think it's really key to have links to different edited entries in this one, and that might be a good place to do it.

3. The thing about your section with things besides the EG is that it only mentions places to put your writing. While these are important, there are many people who have never written a single entry for anything, and simply spend their time talking to people - everywhere from the Forum to the Pythonists' page. I think that, although this entry is about the EG, it might be nice to mention that this is not just a 'writing' site.

When I first started;
I had to ask what a thread is!
It was all new terminology to me, never having been to a posting site.

Some do not understand the process or the serious aspect of the EG.

********
"things besides the EG is that it only mentions places to put your writing. While these are important, there are many people who have never written a single entry for anything" -echomikeromeo

started by Mikey I believe (hope that is right)

***************
An automatic subscribe for newbies to the announcement page and the current newbie help page or a simplier one might be good and save a lot of trouble.

People do not know the difference between an entry and a post if they jump right in without reading a lot of information.

An auto link to terms on the types of writing.
A mini page of terminology with links to the EG ,UG , post and other specific guidelines , plus examples that are set.
But mostly for early starters explain;
There are ways to
leave a *message
a *post to various types of areas, forums, clubs,personal pages
a *journal entry
a *EG entry
*UG entry
*
and others I've have forgotten besides EG entries.

The information in place is all well written and available but maybe not so easily found for the impatient.
I think some are not reading all the guidelines, some are lost and some excited or overwhelmed at the choices. I think the simpliest of start pages linked automatically would be good. A long with the ace welcome staying put

An auto link to terms on the types of writing on the site might be very helpful. A mini page of terminology with links to the EG ,UG , post and other specific guidelines , plus examples that are set.

But mostly for early starters explain;
There are ways to
leave a *message
add *post to various types of areas and forums and clubs and entries.
add *journal entry
add *EG entry
add *UG entry
add *
and others I've have forgotten besides EG entries.

This further explanation on the main topic is needed and IMO this is a very good start Mikey

Oops I meant to delete the repeated portions before posting.
*sigh*

Hi Mikey! I've just seen this. TiT pointed it out to me after I wrote my own guide to the Edited Guide. You might like to look at my version at A4135772.

Things I'd like to see in your version:

1. The Edited Guide is the heart of h2g2. It's a factual guide to the Earth, and as much of the universe as we know about. It's not a fictional work about an imaginary universe.

2. The Edited Guide is not an encyclopaedia, it is a guide. It won't tell you everything there is to know about a topic - it will tell you the interesting bits, and in a way that you will understand and remember them.

3. In the "Reading the Guide" section, you could put a link to A Month of H2G2 Month.

4. More detailed instructions on what to do when you find something wrong in an Edited Entry. Here's what I said in my guide:

HEADER>What if I see something wrong in an Edited Entry?

You can add to the information in any entry by posting a conversation at the bottom of it.

If there is a fact in the entry which is wrong, go to Editorial Feedback (click on Feedback in the left margin, then on Editorial). Start a conversation there reporting the problem and someone will be along shortly to have a look at your complaint.

If the Entry is rubbish from start to finish, it will need to be re-written. This is a skilled task, so it is best not to attempt it yourself unless you've already written a number of Edited Entries. Just leave a message at Editorial Feedback and we'll add it to our list of things to do.

5. In the Writing for the Guide section, three Guidelines are so important that they are worth repeating:


Write about reality.
Write in your own style rather than that of Douglas Adams.
Write Entries of appropriate length.

We have to turn a lot of people away because they (a) think they can write funny fiction and (b) write Entries which are far too short.


As someone who lives for the Edited Guide, I hope that this doesn't state the case too strongly - I don't want it to appear as a rant.

"The Edited Guide is the heart of h2g2."
I know a lot of people who would disagree with you there. I'd say it's central to h2g2, but not necessarily the heart. All the facets of the site interact with each other and I believe they depend on each other for each other's existance.

Just wanted to stop by and give this a little bump though - also, the <./>UnderGuide</.> section looks pretty good to me.

I will try to get to all of this soon, but not tonight -- carpet cleaners arriving in the morning and need to get everything picked up and moved out of the way.

I have deliberately tried to avoid introducing my own value judgments into this -- my goal here was to create an introduction to the Edited Guide that would be valuable to people from all places on h2g2, not just those who are here primarily for the EG.


Mikey

>>"The Edited Guide is the heart of h2g2."
>>I know a lot of people who would disagree with you there. I'd say it's central to h2g2, but not necessarily the heart. All the facets of the site interact with each other and I believe they depend on each other for each other's existance.

I would have thought that is a fairly good summary of the heart's role: central and interdependent with the other parts of the body.

My statement about the Edited Guide being the heart is actually a direct quote from the Editors and is the official policy of h2g2.

I understand that, Gnomon, but I seriously don't think that using that specific wording in this entry would help achieve the goals I'm trying to reach here -- namely, to help people have a better understanding of what the EG is, and the different ways they can be involved in it. What would be the point in using wording that will 'turn off' or alienate some of the very people we're trying to reach -- especially when that wording doesn't convey any information that will help reach these goals above and beyond that which is already here?

That's not to say that I'm not open to adding some text to the beginning that describes the central role that the EG plays here on h2g2 -- but I think there are ways to do that which would be more in line with the goals I'm trying to reach here.

OK, so EMR would really like to see this page link to lots of EG entries. If we're going to do that, I figure we should take the effort to link to entries that are both truly exemplary and represent a good range of topics, formats, styles, and lengths. Suggestions would be lovely here!!!