A Conversation for Botulinum Toxin and Its Medical Applications

A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 21

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

Are you entirely sure about that Mikey? smiley - erm I sense that many of the original rules regarding PC-ness have relaxed a bit and swung back towards common sense than being over-sensitive.


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 22

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

It's still on the official list of verboten words, and it is still being used by the mods as a reason for yikesing posts.

smiley - mouse


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 23

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

I know it's not allowed as far as everyday speech is concerned, but I honestly can't see anything wrong with it if it's being used in a medical context and if it's used by the professionals within that field. The word 'spastic' is derived from 'spasm', which is what muscles do when they over contract and when you get a cramp. Usage of the word only became a problem when people started using it as an insult - a practice which was quite common in my adolescence.

Perhaps in this instance it should be left up to the Eds smiley - smiley


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 24

Mikey the Humming Mouse - A3938628 Learn More About the Edited Guide!

It has been moderated numerous times in clearly clinical contexts -- including an entry about multiple sclerosis.

Regardless of whether people actually do find it offensive or not, the rules are pretty clear that the word isn't supposed to be used here.

smiley - mouse


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 25

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

A bizarre decision considering that various countries have an official 'Spastic Association'.

smiley - ermAlso this is in Hutchinson's Encyclopaedia:

spastic
Term applied generally to limbs with impaired movement, stiffness, and resistance to passive movement, and to any body part (such as the colon) affected with spasm.


i.e. no mention of a PC alternative

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 26

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

smiley - ermHypothetical question:

If someone were to write an Entry about the Spastic Centre, Australia:

www.thespasticcentre.org.au

how would the Entry be written without including the verboten word?

... or would the entire Entry be smiley - yikesd

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 27

There is only one thing worse than being Gosho, and that is not being Gosho

My point exactly.


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 28

Friar

Thanks to all, for both the advice and the interest.

Also, I think I caught all the spelling errors mentioned.

I am a notoriously poor speller, so thank you all. Please, if you notice more, let me know where the mistake is and I'll attend to it.

I would like to blame being on call for 24 hours at the hospital for such errors, but that would be a dirty, dirty lie. I swear I really like words, I just can't spell them if I'm typing. . .

Anyway, a few items:

1)I vaguely remember the discussion of the MS article and the "spas******" word. I'll totally defer to Mikey that the word remains on the list. I would like to use many of those other banned words at this moment, but yike$. I think I removed the "s" word entirely replacing it with the unsatisfactory and not wholly appropriate 'muscle spasm'. This is inaccurate, but linguistically and for the lay-person it MIGHT be enough. The "s" word has a medical definition and it is not 'muscle spasm', but grrrrrr. . . .

If there are Scouts out there reading, please inquire about this in the forum.

I was also thining of writing an entry on "spas******". But that would be difficuly to do without using the word. It would be like writing about urology or gynecology without using anatomic names for things. . .

Frankly, I can think of no better way of increasing sensitivity and knowledge about a condition than banning the appropriate term for it.

I will mention it no more, the change has been made, if a better word can be thought of I'm all ears.

2) Regarding ronbloggs' concerns. I would honestly like to know if I'm being too ghoulish here. I do not think that the article is too scary, but I'm too close to it. I could make it less so if other strongly feel it is over the line, or in any way unbalanced or inaccurate.

Thanks again to all.

Friar


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 29

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

medical cosmestics, also known as 'cosmesis' > medical cosmetics?

I don't think you're being too ghoulish - if anything you don't go far enough. F'instance, you still haven't mentioned that botulinum toxin is the most toxic substance known to man. As well as being og general interest, this fact is hugely relevant to the Entry as it explains why extremel low, Quality Controlled doses of the toxin need to be given. (This is more important than the antibody tolerance aspect. Also (as I've said before) I think you should mention in passing that Cl botulinum is a ubiquitous organism in the environment, which is how it can lead to food poisining (seeing as you've already mentioned honey)

Regrding the antibody tolerance aspect, I believe this is already becoming problematic. I seem to recall reading (in the popular press) something about Botox ceases to work after several 'rounds' of injections. Maybe this was the problem?

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 30

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

PS,

As your title includes 'Medical Applications', my institution originally started manufacturing botlulinum toxin (in the civilian context, smiley - winkeye) for treatment of blepharospasm of the eyes. Also, somebody above mentioned strabismus. You haven't yet mentioned either of these applicationns. Botox for cosmetic purposes probably came about as manufacturers scratched around trying to find other potential markets for this expensive product.
The toxins are also used to produce antitoxins (in animals)which can then be extracted, purified and labelled (with radioactive atoms, enzymes or fluorescent labels) for use in ELISA'S AND OTHER lABELLED iMMUNOASSAY PROCEDURES FOR THE DETECTION OF food poisoning. (sorry for shouting).

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 31

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

This section:

"If botulinum toxin were to effect these muscles, they would not contract or contract improperly. Illness of this kind is called botulism. This can happen from poorly canned foods or poorly smoked meats or fish."

Perhaps clarify it by sayting s'thing like:

If botulinum toxin were to effect these muscles, they would not contract or contract improperly. Illness of this kind is called botulism. This can happen when spores of Clostridium botulinum, which is a ubiquitous organism in the environment, germinate in poorly canned foods or poorly smoked meats or fish.


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 32

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

For a list of other conditions treatable with botox, see:

http://www.bios.co.uk/textbooks/cbl/pdflibrary/assignment1_1reading.pdf

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 33

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

"A bacteria called Clostridium botulinum " > a bacterium...

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 34

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

"If botulinum toxin were to effect these muscles, they would not contract or contract improperly". > If botulinum toxin were to Affect these muscles, they would not contract or WOULD contract improperly. (i.e. 2 changes)

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 35

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

The section entitled, 'Dangers of ...' should come after'Potential Uses..' and before 'Other Concerns..'

smiley - biggrin


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 36

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows

"The toxins are among the most potent in the world, and has been reported as being the mosgt poisonous substance in the world". > Botulinum toxin IS the most poisonous substance known to Man.

(Also, I think this point is important enough to be in the main text. It exemplifies your sentence where you contrast the nature of the substance with its cosmetic uses).


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 37

Friar

OK I've made a number of changes. I have included the potentcy in the main text, but is had blunted it saying it is 'among' the most potent and poisonous in the world. I did this because if I don't they'll find some tree from in the Amazon that will have the most potent poison, and I'll need to Update. It's just my style.

Also, I increased the mention of dysphonia, strabismus and blepherospasm.

I changed bacteria to bacterium.

I switched the section on dangers with teh section on uses.

As I've added text, the likelihood of typos is high. Please, let me know where in the text they occur.

Thanks everybody.

Friar


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 38

frontiersman

Dear Dr. Friar,

You have 2 typos of 'muscle' that require your attention; one above your footnote 5 indicator, the other below the footnote 6 indicator. I see no other errors personally, but it's easy to miss them.

Just above your sub-heading 'Botox is good', are your figures: '800 to 9000' the intended range? I am nobody to judge these 'values.'
I have done a full proof reading where I understand the terminology, as you requested of your readers.

Ron


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 39

BigAl Patron Saint of Left Handers Keeper of the Glowing Pickle and Monobrows


I would suggest a slight rearrangement in these two paragrraphs:

"Any muscle can be affected by spasm, regardless of muscle size or location. This would include the muscles of the voice box and the eyes. "Botulinum toxin treatment is indicated for several voice box and eye disorders, specifically spasmodic dysphonia, strabismus and blepherospasm. These conditions cause speech difficulty, squinting and eyelid tremor (link blinking).

Diseases of muscle spasm are surprisingly common. They can be tremendously painful and debilitating. Relaxation of the muscles in spasm can be performed several ways mechanically, chemically or surgically. Botulinum toxin is one of these treatments. However, before chemical or surgical interventions are used, physical therapy is often employed to see if muslce can be streched into relaxation. In addition, there are many other methods of relaxing these muscle that are not widely in medical practice"

>
Any muscle can be affected by spasm, regardless of muscle size or location, including the muscles of the voice box and the eyes. Diseases of muscle spasm are surprisingly common and include several voice box and eye disorders, specifically spasmodic dysphonia, strabismus and blepherospasm. These conditions cause speech difficulty, squinting and eyelid tremor resectively.(link blinking).

Such conditions can be tremendously painful and debilitating. Relaxation of the muscles in spasm can be performed several ways mechanically, chemically or surgically. Botulinum toxin is one of these treatments. However, before chemical or surgical interventions are used, physical therapy is often employed to see if muslce (sic: MUSCLE)can be streched (sic. STRETCHED) into relaxation. In addition, there are many other methods of relaxing these muscle that are not widely in medical practice.

There is also somewhere an 'effect' that should be 'affect' (which I pointed out earlier).

Also 'blepharospasm' is far more traumatic than you've indicated (eyelid tremor/blinking). It is the forcible closure of eyelids, usually both together, such that the victim has the appearance of someone 'gurning'.

smiley - biggrin




> .


A3903095 - Botulinum Toxin, AKA BoTox, Treatment

Post 40

Teasswill

Strabismus IS a squint, doesn't cause it. Also known as a 'cast' or 'turn'. It's a disorder of binocular vision, not to be confused with screwing the eyes up as when faced with a bright light.
It's not a muscle spasm, it's usually because of over or underaction of a muscle.

So you will either need to reword the relevant paragraphs to separate out the different disorders.

Correct spelling is 'blepharospasm'.


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