h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I once refused to add a wrong spelling to an entry of mine just because so many people thought it was spelt the wrong way, so I can see where you're coming from!

Look, I'm getting sick and tired of reiterating this very simple fact. The facts are that you have said that (paraphrase) 'Most people think of twilight as the period before dawn'... but they don't! It is no matter whether they are scientifically right or wrong. You are trying to argue a point that is just not true. And, as keeps getting stressed elsewhere on hootoo, the Entries have to be factually accurate.

What is factually accurate is that most people think of twilight as being the period after sunset.

I prefer to think of twilight as that darkish time when the sun is just under the horizon. I've never considered it to be in the morning, but that's because I'm never awake at that time.

Not most - now it is many.

What is factually correct is that twilight applies to both morning and evening and morning twilight comes first.

Doesn't hootoo allow poetic licence? Its an opening paragraph for Bobs sake. It just there to grabs people attention and its certainly done that but not in the way intended. It's just a prologue. It's not meant to be informative, it just sets the stage for what is to follow. Arguing over what people may or may not think is ridiculous. They will think differently and correctly when they read the rest of the article.

I have always known that twilight applies as much to morning and evening. Having watched more morning twilights in more parts of the world than I care to remember, everyone with a similar background to me would agree with me. It is only people with no interest in twilight that believe that it just applies to the evening.

Donald

Believe me, a VERY substatial majority have no interest in twilight.

No offence.

You usually find, by the way, that when Al writes out a paragraph like that, it fits far too well for most people to disagree.

This is one of those times

Now that it doesn't same 'most' anymore, can't we just leave this? I had no idea twilight was morning too - I thought that was just 'dawn', especially as the light seems to have a different quality.

The only people who have expressed an opinion have said similar - that they thought it was only the evening that was twilight. But a few people on h2g2 who all thought the same doesn't necessarily represent the whole world. There may well be three farmers for every city dweller worldwide that *do* know that twilight is both morning and evening - we just can't know for sure that because most people on this thread think differently, the whole world will follow suit. Of course, Donald can't know the opposite either, but as it's his entry, then I think he should have the decision on that wording.

As I said before, I've refused to add content to an entry just because 'most' people commenting seem to have the wrong idea, and I think it right that authors can make these decisions, otherwise we'll have loads of facts and nothing very interesting to read.

Donald,
Excellent, interesting and well written. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it.

Just a bit of background regarding Nautical or Astronomical Twilight. Before the days of navigation by GDPS the Mate, or First Officer, always stood the 4-8 watch and would shoot various stars, with a sextant, evening and morning, when he could see the horizon. These sightings were used as confirmation of the noon sighting, of the height of the sun above the horizon, by all the deck officers. Surprisingly, it was usually the Captain's reading that was deemed to be most acccurate.

The star sightings were important as it could be cloudy at noon hence no sighting would be possible. Curiously the Navigating Officer was usually the Senior Second Mate.

Mina:

Thanks for that. It is not only farmers that know the difference, every Soldier, Sailor, and I imagine Airman, will know the difference as well. In the Army twilight is known as first light and last light. Very specific times of the day in the Military. How's this for a paradox, the Military use Civil Twilight for first light and last light.

WanseringAlbatross:

Thank you for your comments. I knew that star sighting were taken in morning but didn't think they would do the same in the evening although it does makes sense to do so. Of course the Captains reading would be the most accurate. What else would you expect, after all he is the Captain.

Donald

Ho Yus, just confirmed evening sites with one of my navigator buddies, definitely morning and evening.

Err, slight hitch. I raised twilight with my arch navigator mate in the teatime think tank, oh alright, the bar of the Duck and Strumpet. Navigators actually use Civil Twilight because at Nautical Twilight the horizon isn't distinct enough to shoot stars.

Also, at the risk of thread drift, star sights are more accurate than sun sights as there are more stars to fix on and only one sun. The morning sight determines the latitude and then the sun at noon determines the longitude.

The discussion was of course had on the back of 'When I was a lad we used to dream about satellites' and finally the ship he had just left had three separate satellite nav systems one of which was Russian.

I suppose it matters in which part of the World you are in. In the tropics Civil Twilight only last about twenty minutes whereas at UK latitudes it lasts about an hour.

I imagine you would have to be pretty nifty with the sextant to shoot three or more stars in twenty minutes.

Anyone wishing to explore the phenomenon of twilight and other astronomical events further can download the application below.

http://www.skycalendar.com/download/index.html

--Capitalisation has been brought up already, but remains inconsistent throughout the entry.
--"Civil twilight begins when the Sun is six degrees below the horizon at sunrise and ends when the Sun is six degrees below the horizon at sunset. Between these times it is considered light enough to work outside without the aid of artificial lighting." >> I understand what you're saying, but I agree that this makes it sound like twilight lasts all day. Perhaps it could say 'In the morning civil twilight begins when the sun is six degrees below the horizon before sunrise; in the evening it lasts after sunset until the sun is six degrees past the horizon. During these times it is still considered light enough...'
--The same phenomenon that stops the termination of daylight for months at a time in polar regions. >> This is an incomplete sentence.
--observation if faint stellar objects >> observation of faint stellar objects

I think this is just about there .

I like it, Donald!

Just one suggestion.

Earlier in this thread, you said "The transition from twilight to daylight and vice versa is of little interest to most people so there is no reason to make a designation for it."

That might be worth adding to the entry, since it does seem to imply (to me, anyhow) that high noon is within two out of three "twilights," given that it comes between when they start and when they end.

NBY

I'd just like to say that keeping the order of describing the morning twilight before the evening one is the right decision. It flows much better as the description is moving forward through the day, just like sun does.

If it comes as a surprise to readers that there is a twilight in the morning. Well I suggest that that's just their tough luck, and they should try going to bed a bit earlier in future so they'll be up in time to witness the event

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