h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was just wondering how many others here have watched 'Firefly' and what you all think of it.

I recently bought the DVD and have been making my way through the episodes. I have got as far as episode 12 as I write this. I knew it was supposed to be a 'conceptual' western set in space, but I must admit I didn't realise it is, to all intents and purposes, literally a cowboy show.

I can see that the standard of writing is generally high (although not as good as I had expected - and occasionally noticeably clunky). I acknowledge that the acting is okay, and in a couple of cases very good. The production values, obviously, are quite impressive, although not especially creative. I believe this show had a budget of $2 million or more per episode, which is a lot of money. Having said all of this, for me the show has failed to live up to the hype.

I didn't expect it to be in the same class as 'Buffy', but I was expecting something more impressive and less derivative than this. Maybe I am missing the point and I need to watch it again from a different perspective. I'm curious to hear what others think.

I have to admit although I don't have the same love I had for Buffy or Angel - the love for Buffy took time to grow though and I think my love of Angel built on that. There were some great episodes like "Our Mrs Reynolds" and "Jaynestown". I haven't watched it all yet but I intend to get around to it at some point. I quite like the way it switches between the western feel of some episodes and some episodes are quite sci-fi-esque like "Out of Gas" which has a bit of a trek vibe. Book's an intriging character too.

You're not the only one not to be blown away by it. It's a different show to Buffy and Angel - some people (including a friend of mine who is a total Firefly fanatic) seem to love it more and some who don't like Buffy/Angel like Firefly and vice-versa. For what I've seen it certainly had promise and deserved a better crack at the whip than it got. All my friends love it so I'm going to end up being taken to see "Serenity" at the cinema which while not waiting for with bated breath I'm still thinking will be an enjoyable experience.

I bought the DVD set having heard a lot of good things about the show, but I didn't go into it thinking it could be as good as Buffy, which I suppose was a sensible thing to do. I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it however and, despite there only being 14 episodes, I came away thinking just how interesting all of the characters were. Whereas I could watch twenty episodes of Star Trek (obvious comparison - apologies) and still not really know any of them, I quickly became invested in the characters of Firefly and found myself always wanting to know even more - especially River, woah! This is, of course, part of the reason why Joss's other shows are so great - strong characters - so I find it a shame we didn't get to see them evolve on the small screen. Not sure how much scope there is for character development on the big screen, though.......

Unlike Buffy, however, I've never had the urge to rewatch any of the episodes. Apart from Out Of Gas and Ariel, I doubt whether I will, either. That's not to say I didn't enjoy them (see above) but I don't think they have the long-lasting appeal of Buffy or Angel. It is, as oldramon says, basically a modern western with a few bells and whistles (spaceships) but I'd still recommend it to anyone who hasn't seen it yet. Oh, and if you like slow twangy-guitar music you're in for a treat.

Something that did bother me, though, was how.....

**semi-spoiler alert**



.....certain people could get shot, tortured etc. on a regular basis yet everyone seemed to be as good as new the next week. It seemed there was no injury the doctor couldn't fix with minimal supplies.

You make a great observation at the end of your message Staker Boi. 'Firefly' does seem to conform to the television tradition that at the end of each episode everything is re-set to 'ground zero'. This works well enough in sitcoms, but is not so acceptable elsewhere. 'Buffy' showed us how it should be done, although admittedly this was not quite so obvious during the first season. I suspect 'Firefly' would have developed a more complex ongoing narrative had it not been cancelled with such haste.

Anyway, thanks to you and vampadvoacate for your comments. Actually, I will say I've enjoyed 'Firefly' more than 'Angel', a show I've always struggled with. I'm not sure why.

Just to put my in: I love Firefly. I've always been a fan of good SF (which translates as 'sad old git' for some people, even when I was young ), and Firefly IS good SF.

Apart from the elements already mentioned (strong characters, engaging and often very funny storylines), it takes the science part quite serious. The show could be considered as a mix of 'Stagecoach' * and '2001: A Space Odyssee'. The writers have thought about how space travel could work: No explosions in space, no fancy flying stunts (except for the Crazy Ivan, but that was inside an atmosphere), no 'let's save some money by coming up with an invention that helps us cut down on special effects' like the transporter in Star Trek. This sort of realism might also explain the 'reset to grond zero', as you call it. After all, there are only two episodes that are set in - relatively - short succession of each other: 'Shindig' and 'Safe'. All other episodes (and even those two) might be set weeks apart. Space travel takes TIME in Firefly, and probably enough to allow wounds to heal.

I also like the social aspect of it, which is always strong in good SF: the Chinese/Japanese cultural influences (extrapolating a much publicised trend of our times): wood-and-paper sliding doors in a spaceship (!), swearing in Chinese (also a brilliant way to subvert the censor), etcetera; the overtones of the American Civil War; and the status reversal by which what is essentially an expensive call girl becomes the ship's ambassador, giving this rag-tag bunch of outlaws access to places that would normally be off limits to them.

Other strong points: No aliens/monsters/supernatural occurances, no doubt to distinguish the show from both the Buffyverse and other SF shows, but it works. And after BtVS (teenagers) and Angel (mostly twenty-somethings), Joss centered this show around a group of people in their thirties (well, most of them), also a change that works.

All in all, a great show, IMO, and I can hardly wait to see 'Serenity'.

Nite Owl

* A little bit of trivia: I used the voice of Andy DeVine's character Buck (the coach driver) from 'Stagecoach' as a model for Nite Owl's in the Slayerville story. And no, it is nothing like my own voice, thank you very much...

Off topic:

Can anyone remember/locate/search out a book called "Journey to Imperator." It was the first ever Science Fiction book that I read and I am trying to relocate it to do an article examining how it could spark a lifelong interest in SF. I cannot even remember the author.

C

Nite Owl, thank you very much for your insightful post. As you might imagine, I had noticed some of the things you mention. For example, the silence in space, the refernces to the American Civil War and the similarity to 'The Searchers'. I take Mal Reynolds to be Ethan Edwards by any other name. I have also identified references to other classic John Wayne westerns such as 'Stagecoach' and 'Rio Bravo'.

I have only watched 'Firefly' once. I did enjoy it (more so, probably, than 'Angel', a show I do tend to struggle with a little bit for some reason). It just didn't resonant with me in quite the way I expected. Maybe the hype set my expectations too high. I will watch it again... and I will go and see the film. I believe that UK release date has been moved forward to 7 October.

Nite Owl, thank you very much for your insightful post. As you might imagine, I had noticed some of the things you mention. For example, the silence in space, the refernces to the American Civil War and the similarity to 'The Searchers'. I take Mal Reynolds to be Ethan Edwards by any other name. I have also identified references to other classic John Wayne westerns such as 'Stagecoach' and 'Rio Bravo'.

I have only watched 'Firefly' once. I did enjoy it (more so, probably, than 'Angel', a show I do tend to struggle with a little bit for some reason). It just didn't resonant with me in quite the way I expected. Maybe the hype set my expectations too high. I will watch it again... and I will go and see the film. I believe that UK release date has been moved forward to 7 October.

I have just realised that, apart from posting it twice, my messasge above is basically rubbish. I meant to refer to 'Stagecoach' when I referred to 'The Searchers' and vice-versa, although the point about Ethan Edwards holds true. Hopefully, it still makes some sense.

Yes, it does, Old Ramon. Unfortunately, I don't think I've ever seen 'The Searchers'.

Carlyle, I'll keep an eye out for it. Are you sure you remembered the title correctly? A quick google came up with precisely zero results...

Nite Owl, if you have any time for westerns you should consider checking out 'The Searchers' sometime. Along with the war film 'They Were Expendable', it is probably the most downbeat and ambiguous of all the John Ford / John Wayne collaborations and it contains one of Wayne's most complex and multi-layered performances. The final image is one of the most famous and haunting moments in the history of film.

Hi Niteowl and Oldramon, sorry to run a separate thread within. I have not yet seen Firefly though I do have the DVD's on order.
I have googled and asked Jeeves, but the book, Journey to Imperator was in publication in the late 1950's . It had a purple cover and was in large type for children, and came from the mobile library. This is the sum of my knowledge!

C

Larry, thanks for the tip. I'll make a mental note.

No problem, Carlyle. If I ever stumble across it, you'll be the first to know. (Well, strictly speaking the second, but that's what you get with those figures of speech )

The DVD has arrived. Even as we speak I am watching the third episode.

It's GREAT.

This is just the kind of television that I like.

This is Blakes Seven with a budget. It has an early Star Wars feel about it, but without the silly monsters. I like the way they have used the Geisha principal in the character of the companion. The acting is good.

My only question is how do you get to the disc special features? They do not come up on my machine.

And... How does Joss Whedon manage to come up with such super cute actresses. First it was Alyson Hannigan and now it is Jewel Staite, just how cute is she?

I'll have introduce you to a mate of mine who drools over both ladies quite a lot too

Drool is not the word I would choose, after all, I am a Doctor. An aesthetic appreciation of cuteness would be more appropriate. [ Although with Alyson now 34 years old, perhaps a little drool would be acceptable!]

C

No, doctors don't drool, they salivate. That's much more civilized.

Enjoy your DVDs, Carlyle!

My apologies to Alyson, not for the salivation, which she will never know about, but for saying she is thirty four when she is 31. Knowing female radar the writ may be winging its way towards me as we speak.

C [for contrite]

*random thread resurrection*

I got Firefly for my birthday and I've just spent the past couple of days watching all of the episodes. I'm very much with Carlyle, I loved it. I wasn't expecting Buffy (though I do find River to be awfully close to Drusilla), I was expecting sci-fi done with Joss' style. And I got it and that makes me very happy.

The low-tech style was something that I loved, it was quite unlike most sci-fi, very little new or crazy stuff which needs to be explained, and this leaves time for the characters to be developed, again unlike most sci-fi. In 14 episodes Joss created and developed 10 characters, as well as a whole Universe for them to live in. In all other sci-fi I've seen, it's taken much longer than that and normally I still don't care about them. All of the characters were developed beautifully, without resorting to cliches or stereotypes. I only wish that we would have been told a little more about Wash and Zoe's courtship, even in such a short space of time, this was the only real thing missing for me.

Kaylee was wonderful and lit up every scene she was in, if it hadn't have been for Adam Baldwin and Alan Tudyk, I might have been seriously questioning my sexuality. As it stands I just want Jayne served to me on a platter.

The humour was wonderful, occasionally slapstick, occasionally witty, always funny, just as I expected from Joss and co. It was great to see old Buffy stalwarts like Jane Espenson and Tim Minnear writing episodes, the only person missing was Marti Noxon, a shame since I think Firefly would have suited her well.

The stories were great, again as expected, with some brilliant twists (River's trick in the last episode was especially clever)

I just loved it, I can't wait until the DVD of Serenity is released.

Nice to see another convert to the Firefly-lovers clan, even if its 'verse' looks like becoming moribund (hope I'm wrong, of course). I think you hit the nail when you highlighted the character development as the key to its appeal. As with all of Joss's shows, it's this exploration of his characters that prove so interesting and form such a strong foundation for the programme as a whole. Chuck in the usual dose of witty scripts and clever dialogue, and it's difficult to see why shows such as Star Trek and Stargate have had the higher viewing figures. Well, I *know* why they've had higher viewing figures, but I don't want to start any arguments.......

Interestingly enough, I have a work colleague who has told me he's going to buy the TV series now he's just seen the film and the Firefly-verse for the first time. Like the rest of us, he seemed to fall in love with a lot of the characters (especially Kaylee - who wouldn't?!) and is looking forward to learning more about them. I can only hope more people follow suit, but it still might be a little too late as far as its overall survival is concerned after seeing the figures Larry posted here.

Hope you all have a Happy New Year, including those who are no longer with us (it would seem) such as Mrs Liotta, Flavia (sniff) and Ren........