h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: What is a Baha'i? - A2881703
Author: Koshana - U810002

Didn't see any entries on this in the Guide. Maybe it will be usefull.

Also interesting...

Just some lots of nits, which you will have to deal with:

1. Be easier on your readers. I for example, reading the title could have imagined a Baha'i is anything ranging from a long drink to a new special Hawaiian greeting.

I would start differently - Explaining right away, for those (like me) who *never* heard of this, what Baha'i is (and how it is pronounced). You explain some of this in your last paragraph, maybe you could move it to the top?

2. "The Baha'i Faith is the second-most widespread religion of the world"

Religion! It's so strange I never heard of it! Do you mean wide-spread, like well-distributed or wide-spread like every one in ten is a Baha'i? I would have guessed its Hinduism, or something eastern (what do the Chinese believe in?), followed by Christian Religion and then Islam. (Or the other way round).

Is it really a religion, or can a Jew be a Baha'i? Is it more like a philosophy? Do Baha'i worship? Do they have umm... temples, or churches and stuff? Does it have some history, like who invented it, where it originated? What does Baha'i mean?

I think these pedestrian questions need to be addressed in the Entry.

3. The title. You do not explain what a Baha'i is. You explain what a Baha'i believes in.


There are more nits to pick, but I think these are tha major ones.

Confused... But interested.

HELL

OK this is me again...

Just wading through the links you provided gave me some answers.

According to the official site 5 million people are Baha'i. That's less than one in a thousand globally, hardly the "second-most widespread religion of the world". That (and the fact that they don't proselytize) also explains why I never heard of this religion.

According to these sites, the Baha'i do believe their founder (difficult to spell, and I forgot it) is a messenger of God. Most other religions would consider this an act of blasphemy (I personally don't care, of course. To me Jimi Hendrix was a prophet). How does Baha'i relate to other religions?

From a first glimps on these pages, I think the main gist of the Baha'i faith it to try to fuse the three big monotheistic Religions together.

Hmmm... Just comments.

HELL

Thanks, some interesting points to ponder. I will work it it and adjust.
Some clarifications - Encyclopedia Britanica cites the Baha'i Faith as the second most wide-spread religion in the world, so if the terminology works for them . . . ? I think I'll stick with that.

Perpective on other religions is covered in "Progressive revelation" but if you didn't spot it perhaps I should clarify.

Your questions are all interesting and valid but would not fit into a short guide entry (hence the url's). The heading - what is a Baha'i and not - what is the Baha'i Faith - allows limmiting the subject to the people and how to recognise them (in true h2g2 original style) and not detailing the history and origins of the belief (rather left to encyclopedias), but I'll work in a refference that will link the two for clarity.

Thanks for the feedback, I'll work on it

Hi Koshana,

I have just taken a quick look over the article, and I think that this has the makings of an edited guide entry. A good friend of mine is Baha'i, and a description of this religion would definitely be a valuable addition to the Edited Guide.

I just checked my version of Encyclopaedia Brittanica, and I did not find the reference you mention. 5 million is a tiny size compared to Christianity, Islam, Buddism and Hinduism, each of which have several hundreds of millions of devotees. You will find believers in these religions in every major city on the planet also. The word "widespread" could mean many things. I can't imagine it would be a word used by the Encyclopaedia Brittanica. Does it mean biggest? Does it mean dispersed? Does it mean common? How would you prove something was "most widespread"? I would expect that it is a very fast-growing religion, but that's not what the word "widespread" means. I think you should remove the reference, or check again what your sources say.

On a brief look through the rest of the text, it looks good. You might mention a bit more about the Baha' Ullah, his origins, his fate, and the growth of the religion subsequently. There has been some terrible religious persecution against the Baha'i people even in quite recent times, which should also be mentioned. You might also mention some of the customs and behaviours of the Baha'i, such as no alcohol or drugs; daily prayer etc.

I hope this helps. I look forward to see this getting through Peer Review.

Woodpigeon

Re 'Widespread':

http://www.bahai.com/thebahais/pg5.htm

Founded a century and a half ago, the Bahá'í faith is today among the fastest growing of world religions. With more than five million followers in at least 232 countries and dependent territories, it has already become the second-most widespread faith, surpassing every religion but Christianity in its geographic reach.

Bahá'ís reside in more than 116,000 localities around the world, an expansion that reflects their dedication to the ideal of world citizenship.


Although I must agree that 5 million is peanuts compared with the bigger organisations

Hello.

I spotted the relation of Baha'i to other Religions (it seems to accept all but polytheistic religions), it's under "The common foundation of all religions". (I dispute that, BTW, but what the hey, if they believe it's so, fine by me) What I meant before is the other way round... How do other religions relate to Baha'i? (I could imagine they take a hostile stance, as usual). And, what seems to be important, is Baha'i thought to be the continuity, and the confluence of Judaism, Christianity, Islam and Buddhism? How does it relate to Hinduism (after all it's polytheistic and hass *many* followers)?

Another thing. After reading this Entry, I thought 'Well, I seek the truth. I believe science and Religion must agree. I am trying not to be prejudiced, and I do believe Men and Women are equal and so on. Basically, I do believe in 90% of the things described in your Entry.' Yet it doesn't make me a Baha'i. The laws of the country I live in and my upbringing are based on the ten comandments, yet I am not a Christian. If I live in Germany, speak perfect German, fully integrate into German society, this will still not make me a German (if I don't want to). So there must be some other parameter. Like an initiation rite, a baptism, a certificate, a contribution receipt etc. Or, what could also be the case is: Do Baha'i believe everybody is a Baha'i? Is there a concept of sinning and being punished, like eternal damnation after drinking a beer - this is something I would like to know before I talk to a Baha'i - In his or her eyes I would be a sinner... (Let me stop here.)

As to the Encyclopaedia Britannica... It can say what it wants if it's wrong it's wrong. 5 million people is not wide-spread. If it's good for them, fine. I would not use this wording.

The questions I posed are very naive and pedestrian, and represent what a layperson would be interested in when they read an Entry entitled 'What is a Baha'i'. Hence, I disagree that they do not fit into a short guide Entry, and I still think this Entry should at least cover some of it. I am not saying you could write an Entire section devoted to the history of this religion, or that you should write seven paragraphs comparing Baha'i and every other Religion. All I'm asking for is *one* paragraph, as an introduction in the lines of:

"Baha'i is a religion. It originated in DATE, in PLACE, by FOUNDER. The name Baha'i means ____. The main idea of Baha'i is ENTER SUCCINT IDEA HERE. Worldwide, one of the fastest-growing religions counts at date of writing 5 million people. More detailed information can be found here: LINK, LINK, LINK. In the next part, this Entry will mainly focus on the belief of a Baha'i, this should help the reader understand what this religion is all about."

That (or one paragraph more on the historical aspects, as noted above, there have been persecutions?) would be enough, IMO.... No wait. The sins, and the eternal damnation bit. Is there something like this? ... WP posted something about no alcohol...

BTW: I really think this Entry could be a valuable addition to the Edited Guide. I would just like to see these points briefly and clearly addressed.

See you later,


HELL


PS: Do you write Truth capitalized on purpose (like that philosphical 'Truth is God' thing, or are you German?)

Hi there, Koshana! Still working on this one?


Mikey

Ok, Mikey, yes I'm still working on this one but its a bit of a "religeous" experience - I took some time putting the first one together and want to be realy clear about any adjustments.

Hell, . Ok, from the top - progressive revelation includes all religeons of divine origin ( I know this opens an argument in itself but lets leave that one for another essay ok? ) Hinduism is also accepted as a religeon of divine origin by Baha'is as Krishna is believed to have been a manifestation of God.

As to the believing 90% of the things - if you were to believe the things mentioned here, Baha'is would concider you a Baha'i - loosely speaking. There are passages in the Writtings where a Baha'i is described and they dont all mention the nescessity of accepting that Baha'u'llah was a manifestation of God. SOme person on some island somewhere may believe and live in the way described and be thought of by Baha'is as a Baha'i but not be "enrolled" so to speak. Its a vastly different perspective than is common amongst current theological lablelling. For example - is a Baha'i a Christian? Well Baha'is believe that Christ was the Son of God, and that He was a manifestation of God. Baha'is follow the spiritual teachings of Christ. So are Baha'is Christians? Well that depends on your definition of Christian. Baha'i's definition of Baha'i may encompass a whole lot of people that have never heard of The Baha'i Faith . . . its simply a different way of looking at the world.

As to the second-most wide-spread religeon of the world - that simply means that there are more Baha'is in more parts of the world than of any other religeous group - bar 1 (which happens to be the combined sects of Christianity). While other religeons tend to be more regionally or country - grouped, the Faith has attracted enrollment from people all arround the world. Its a fact and so i'm not willing to take it out, sorry. I'm not saying there are more Baha'is, just that they can be found in more places than most other religeons - which is in no way a competative statement since Baha'is are all Christains, Muslims, Hindus, Zoroastrians etc too . . . if you see it in that perspective.

Lets get to the last first and then I'll come back to the other bit - Baha'is dont believe in "Hell" and regard the ""laws and ordinances" as a "guide for healthy and pain-free living" (I'm being a bit minimalist in that statement but there's the essence as I understand it). Laws are not enforced by anyone (unless a Baha'i poses a danger to other members of the community) and since there are no priests or "leaders" in modern time (rather elected spiritual assemblies that are responsible for the administration of the affairs of the Baha'i communities) no individuals are given the right to call judgement on any other human being. The laws or ordinances of the Baha'i Faith are concerned with an individuals relationship with God, with the understanding that God would not make a law or a suggestion that would not be in societies best interest.

There is a plethora of reactions from other religeous groups and I'm sure these are different all over the world. The most serious persecution occurs in Iran still where thousands of Baha'is are martyred (to this day) every year. The older religeous groups are more tollerant - Hindus, Buddists, Jews are more open to open discussion and acceptance of others whereas the Christain and Muslim groups are less open to identifying common ground.

Your point on what Baha'is "officially" believe is challenging for me. You see from my understanding of the Writtings, not all people who profess belief in Baha'u'llah can be called Baha'is in TRUTH (and no I'm not German . It is rather the actions and beliefs and attitudes of a person that declares them a "Baha'i" (litterall translation - servant of God). Is every person who goes to church a Christian? In the truest sense?
It may seem pedantic but it is a cental theme in the Baha'i Faith - that it isn't enough to flap your lips about something - you need to truly live it. I think the point I'm trying to make by NOT adding the paragraph that you mention is that in the words of Baha'u'llah, a person who believed, acted or lived in the way I've described in the article - would truly be a "Baha'i" - more so than a card-carrying member of the Baha'i Faith that did not - even if the former individual had never heard of the Baha'i Faith.

Baha'u'llah said "let deeds, not words be your adorning". I dont know if saying you are a Baha'i makes you one, any more than saying you are not one - but living in a certain way - would make you not one.

I thought that the further reading urls that I put in would serve to assist anyone looking for "facts" - but i dont want to make the statement that everyone who is a member of a Baha'i community is a Baha'i - because that would not be supported by the Writtings of the Baha'i Faith.

I do promise to give it some thought though and try to find a way to bring in some "details" - perhaps of the Founder if nothing else. I feel its really important that I not misrepresent the Writtings or the Baha'is though, so it may take some thought.

Thanks all for your concidered feedback, I will give a great deal of thought to your suggestions.

KPOW
Kosh

I completely understand what you are saying.....

My grandma (cousin, i guess) is Bahaii. MY grandpa is Sikh. and one of the reasons they're relationship is worked so well is because they have very very similar faiths.

By the Bahaii beliefs almost all Sikhs, some Muslim sects, some Christian sects are Bahaii in nature.

Just like....

Some define Christians as those who believe that Jesus was son of god. Well Sikhism doesn't deny that... so by that defintion all Sikhs are also Christians.....

Would I be right, Koshana if I say that Bahaii's believe that most prophets are manifestations of the same spirit?

The analogy used in the Writtings is that the Manifestations are as Mirros that reflect the light of God. The nature of that light is seen differently due to the "shape" or nature (or place of appearance) of the mirror - but the light is the same. So in that aspect - yes.

The real answer gets more complicated - certain specific "sprits" are thought to have manifested again and again in various forms through various prophets. That is - the "return" of the spirit of one manifestation or prophet in another one. I'm not very well-read on this aspect so I wouldn't like to say which ones, but in both senses the answer would be yes.

As to Sikhism, that would be a beautifull combination. Unlike other religeons, Baha'is are encouraged to marry people of other faiths, but Baha'u'llah mentioned specifically that of all the religeons, the Sikhs were closest to getting it "right". I'd love to find out more about that Faith, there are so few followers here I've never met one.

Thanks Black Cheetah

Part way I guess....

In Sikhism.... the belief is that there is one god, and one guru. This guru(teacher, pathmaker, leader,etc) takes variety of forms for different people and reasons. According to our scripture Mohammed, Jesus, Our Ten Gurus, the ancient Mayan entities, All the Hindu Devs and Devis and many others are the same spirit. They appear differently because the world is large.

What ancient Mayan would have listened to Jesus, who doesn't look like anybody that they no of.... (he would be considered an outsider, by the appearance alone)... so 'God' sent out different manifestations to different tribes.

According to Sikhism all these people preached the same message also... except that this message has gotten tainted or (i prefer "polluted") over the years.

A good example would be Hinduism.

In the early days it was pure and a way of attaining heights. Then the Brahmins came in to the picture. They started adding this and that to religion that slowly it got polluted. Example: The Caste System, A Brahmin Creation.... Ceremonies, started to cost money and could only be done through the Brahmin... and so on so forth.

Similarily Buddhism... Buddha had total of three messages that he preached and now the religion has a full bible and ceremony attached....

anyway... I am babbling now....

Black Cheetah -

forgot to add one line... dont want to look arrogant do we....

Same for Sikhism, it is also greatly (vastly) more polluted....

Yes, Baha'is are encouraged to look at a Manifestation or Prophet through his teachings, not through the words of his followers. The interpretations or additions that are made by man are usually to support power-bases or ignorances and so are not acurate reflections of the Will of God. Baha'is may not interpret the Writtings for each other and if you want to see what Baha'u'llah wrote - with your own eyes, you can go to Haifa and see the original texts for yourself. I've always been troubled by other peoples interpretations of words that by their own nature - having divine origin - are so multifaceted.
I can read a scripture today and then again tomorrow and see such different things in it. But that's my own sacred experience, the path of my own growth. I could never imagine how my own experience of spirit today should determine anyone else's.

Now I'm rambling Thanks for the info Black Cheetah, I'm going to read up some more.

Kosh

Aha! Thank you very much for your Explanations, Koshana (and BC). I really have a much better picture in my head now.

As to 'most wide-spread' include, perhaps a footnote in the lines of: 'Wide-spread in terms of distribution, not in absolute numbers (if possible include figures)' then the matter (IMO) would be clear.

I think some bits of your answers in this thread really deserved to be part of the Entry. Especially the interbelief topic and the true/not-true Baha'i idea.

Thank you, very much indeed. I had never heard of Baha'i before, I certainly learnt something reading your Entry and here in PR.

HELL

Hey Koshana,

Does the Lotus Temple belong to your faith?


Black Cheetah -

Yeah! Isn't it amazing? Its definately my best - after the shrines in Haifa itself. There's another one in Australia that's stunning too.

For Hell, when he gets here - I'll note that the Houses of Worship of the Baha'i Faith are open to members of all Faiths to make use of. The 9 sides of each of the houses is to represent the 9 major religeons of the world and anyone can go to one of the Houses and pray, meditate or just sit.

Have you been to the Lotus temple Black Cheetah?


Kosh

No, I havent... but at my grandma's house...she has pictures of the temple and I was just wondering.

It is a beautiful temple. Is it mentioned in the article?

I think mentioning it would be nice... I think everybody nows about the lotus temple but not the faith it belongs to... ISN't that a bit crazy?


haha...

Black Cheetah -

I think i'm going to have to write a separate post on The Baha'i Faith and answer all of Hells questions in it and mention the temples perhaps. Then maybe I can link the two and everyone would be happy.

Hmmmmmm. Will ponder . . . .


Kosh

Hello, Koshana,

How's the pondering coming along?

Jules