A Conversation for Micronavigation
Peer Review: A28801820 - Micronavigation
Skankyrich [?] Started conversation Nov 8, 2007
Entry: Micronavigation - A28801820
Author: Skankyrich [?] - The Post's Guest Editor! - U931109
I'm not sure how well this reads, but I'm putting it in for review anyway. There isn't a good, comprehensive guide to micronav on the internet at all at the moment, so I thought I might try to be the first
I've also asked the Eds if I can add a few small diagrams to explain the Tactics section a little more easily.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Nov 8, 2007
The normal rule is that you can add diagrams as long as you don't rely on them. The article should still make sense without them.
This looks interesting, Rich. I used to do orienteering, so all of this looks familiar to me, and in a quick run through, I couldn't see anything wrong with it. I'll try and give it a more detailed look later.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Secretly Not Here Any More Posted Nov 8, 2007
Looks good. The aiming off method was the way we were taught in the Scouts.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Nov 8, 2007
You've made Attack Points very prominent, placing them separate from all the other tactics. Is this justified? I know that in Orienteering, where you have to find a tiny target on a big mountain, they are indeed that important, but for general navigation, I'd put them in with other tactics.
I think you should just call it micronavigation and be done with it.
I wouldn't recommend boxing as a "very handy" technique, as it requires four separate direction changes to be made, each with a possibility of error. I'd put it in the "use with caution" category.
Typos etc:
oreinteers --> orienteers
accepting the fact the humans make mistakes -->
accepting the fact that humans make mistakes
65-70 strides -- add spaces around the dash
if you came to an impassable -->
if you come to an impassable
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Whisky Posted Nov 8, 2007
Two points...
1) "If you're walking uphill, you'll go more slowly, so add a minute for each 10m contour line crossed."
I was taught slightly differently, in that, unless you're suicidal or very brave, going downhill can slow you down as well. How about "If you're walking on uneven or undulating terrain, you'll go more slowly, so add..."
2) One additional point you could add - nobody walks in a straight line when following a compass in bad visibility - you always tend to 'crab' slightly, staying on the same bearing but drifting slightly to one side or the other. A problem which obviously worsens the further you have between fixed points. A good way of getting round this in bad visibility, as long as you're not alone, is to send out someone from your group in front of you along the required bearing until they're at the edge of visibility and using them as a reference point for the rest of the group to walk to.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) Posted Nov 8, 2007
Naismiths rules?
In the end, we managed to perfect our running up and down hills techniques to such an extent we were able to maintain an even pace on the map on all but the very toughest of mountains. Anything less than 2000 feet, or a cliff, and we had no truck with Naismith. See, I cant even spell his name properly now, or can I?.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Mina Posted Nov 8, 2007
micronavigation, micro-navigation or micro navigation Depending on your taste in hyphenation.
I think this is confusing, could you rearrange it? The entry starts out rather cold and dark, so setting a 'serious' mood and I thought you were offering me three choices of things to learn.
Perhaps something like
micronavigation, or Depending on your taste in hyphenation, micro-navigation or micro navigation
" If you can't read a map or use a compass to take a bearing competently, go and learn the basics first." Link please to show me where I can do this? Now I don't know whether to read the rest of the entry or not as I've no idea how to use a compass...
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Gnomon - time to move on Posted Nov 8, 2007
The basics is really just knowing how to use a compass, and what all the little squiggles on the map mean, as you cover all the other aspects of navigation.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Mina Posted Nov 8, 2007
Perhaps Rich could write something about that too. I only walk in 'safe' places but realise what I'm missing because of it.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Skankyrich [?] Posted Nov 8, 2007
I think it's important to note that I'm not really writing about 'general navigation'. That's for a different Entry, which I might write I'm really covering micronav as it is taught on professional training courses such as the walking Group Leader and Mountain Leader, which make presumptions about your existing skills. I should be a bit clearer about what standard of navigation you should be at already, and this includes being able to walk on a bearing, doing backbearings and relocation as well as the very basics that Gnomon mentions. Whisky, walking on a bearing comes into that, but the idea of sending someone ahead to the edge of visibility is now consider outdated; certainly on an assessment, you'd have to show self-sufficiency. We now pick an object and walk to it, even if it's a flower on a gorse bush or a particular blade of grass, walk to that and repeat!
We'd almost always use an attack point in micronav, Gnomon, but you may be right. I teach attack points first, in fact, and use the other tactics as a method of getting to one, but perhaps they aren't always strictly necessary. It is certainly most important aspect, though, and I wanted to distinguish it from the rest. I've added a short paragraph to boxing, but it *is* an good technique if you can walk on a bearing and measure distance accurately.
Regarding Naismith, I've never heard that downhill walking adds any time, just that it doesn't speed you up! The adding bits of time on comes from experience more than anything, and perhaps I should expand that part a little with some examples of difficult ground that would slow you down. Thanks, Whisky - I'll have another look at that bit
'micronavigation, micro-navigation or micro navigation...' There isn't really a 'standard' spelling of it, though micronavigation is the one I've seen most often. I put the other spellings in there purely for people searching for the variations, but point taken and they've been moved to a footnote.
Thanks very much for all the comments - I didn't expect to get so many quite so quickly!
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Whisky Posted Nov 8, 2007
"We now pick an object and walk to it, even if it's a flower on a gorse bush or a particular blade of grass"
Been there, seen it, done it, got the T-shirt and been extremely embarrassed when the rock you've been walking towards for five minutes gets up and walks away before you get close! (Those don't half look like granite rocks from a distance in bad weather)
A28801820 - Micronavigation
vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) Posted Nov 8, 2007
Well I am sure in Scouts we learnt that Naysmiph *shudders* was for up and down. Our leader was exceedingly stubborn about that fact.
I did a course for something called an M form I think - was that some sort of Scouting movement specific thingy which got banished and replaced with real BMG macoy?
I was always very grateful for all the time and effort that went into teaching me how to micronavigate, apart from the bits about Neighsmiff.
(in preparation for something called the cheshire hike, we had to make route sheets for all our walks, which was fair enough, but Ken insisted we include columns for Neh?smythe, and count every contour we crossed on our maps, which again, would possibly be fair enough if we were anywhere other than Cheshire, which if of course, basically, flat.
5 meters gained in this 200 meter section, quick, add 20 seconds to the estimated time of the walk, what do mean you are intending to run that bit for fun? Sure, I learnt my lesson about Naismith, but I cant help but feel it was a bit over the top drilling his rules in quite so repetitively).
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Skankyrich [?] Posted Nov 8, 2007
Unfortunately, I can't put my hand on my copy of Langmuir, which I take as the ultimate authority on everything mountain-related - I am 90% sure he doesn't mention adding time downhill, though. however, I've done some research on the Internet, and some sources do indeed mention downhill - a little less time for a 'gentle incline', a little more for a 'steep incline'. Most sources that mention these give them as 'optional corrections' or say 'some people like to add', so they're by no means set in stone. For me, it comes down to experience - what is gentle and what is steep isn't easily quantifiable anyway - and on the hill you learn to make these adjustments. Personally, I don't make any adjustments, because I know to within 1/4 km/h how fast I'm walking, but they are good guides for beginners. It's very subjective.
Ideally, I need to write a separate Entry on Naismith and Tranter as well as a basic guide to navigation, don't I?
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Skankyrich [?] Posted Nov 8, 2007
I've reshuffled the Entry a bit, moving the attack points into the tactics, adding a couple of lines around the first section and mentioning other corrections to Naismith.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Skankyrich [?] Posted Nov 8, 2007
Langmuir does mention the downs - I stand corrected. Rather than go into corrections to Naismith in detail, though, I've written another Entry instead.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
h5ringer Posted Nov 9, 2007
As a member of the map, compass and fair weather walking brigade, I found this extemely useful, even though I would probably (hopefully?) never need it.
Excellent entry again Rich
A28801820 - Micronavigation
Mina Posted Nov 9, 2007
"Out of curiosity mina, where is 'safe'?"
Extremely well marked paths with cafes at the end of them. I loved walking over Dartmoor with Skanky earlier this year, and although I doubt I'd be brave enough to do something like that on my own I would like to be able to be a bit more adventurous than local public footpaths and country park routes.
This entry looks really useful, and once I've learned to read a compass I will be back to print it out and laminate it. Just in case.
Very well done.
A28801820 - Micronavigation
vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) Posted Nov 9, 2007
Due to weakness of dollar, this is actually my :
In real life, there is quite a long way (in fact, you could even say a world of difference ) between the basics of navigation and µnavigation, yet in the entry, you go straight from the Basics to Judging Distance.
Warning: next wee bit slightly UK/OS centric
I, like thousands of other cubs/scouts, first learnt the basics of navigation using a pink 1:50000 map. However, to progress to µnav, you clearly need a yellow, sometimes green, 1:25000 map.
So, even if there were a basic navigation entry in the EG, I would suggest an "Equipment Required" section between "Basics" and "Judging Distance", to mention the scale issue (can link to A1035118). You could also mention compasses at this point. In a hypothetical Basic Navigation entry, any compass would do I should think, but again, for µnav, you need something similar to Silva's best (they have those ones with the extra long straight edge for taking bearings on a 1:25000 map f'rinstance), with rotating degrees, and more importantly, those red lines, to match the North/South grid on ones map. Then all you would need is a footnote: remind the reader of the phrase "magnetic to grid, get rid", or somesuch, with link to aforementioned basic nav entry for full explanation.
All of the above is just a vague suggestion.
vp
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Peer Review: A28801820 - Micronavigation
- 1: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 8, 2007)
- 2: Gnomon - time to move on (Nov 8, 2007)
- 3: Secretly Not Here Any More (Nov 8, 2007)
- 4: Gnomon - time to move on (Nov 8, 2007)
- 5: Whisky (Nov 8, 2007)
- 6: vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) (Nov 8, 2007)
- 7: Mina (Nov 8, 2007)
- 8: Gnomon - time to move on (Nov 8, 2007)
- 9: Mina (Nov 8, 2007)
- 10: vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) (Nov 8, 2007)
- 11: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 8, 2007)
- 12: Whisky (Nov 8, 2007)
- 13: vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) (Nov 8, 2007)
- 14: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 8, 2007)
- 15: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 8, 2007)
- 16: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 8, 2007)
- 17: h5ringer (Nov 9, 2007)
- 18: Mina (Nov 9, 2007)
- 19: Skankyrich [?] (Nov 9, 2007)
- 20: vogonpoet (AViators at A13264670) (Nov 9, 2007)
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