h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Thought of anything yet?

Hi again Luthiena, this is looking great! Here are my new nit-picks. I don't think that you add anything else, so I'm just going to suggest corrections where I think something you include is not 100%. Explanations in []are for information, not for the entry.

Elves: renouned -> renowned

Frodo Baggins: It is soon apparent -> It becomes apparent [over the following 17 years!]

Sauron: Maiar -> Maia [singular form, Maiar is plural]

Forged the rings -> convinced the Elves to forge magical rings [Sauron made only the One Ring, as you correctly mention later]

Fellowship, 1st para: delete the bit about "to Rivendell, where, they believe it will be safe". [The Hobbits originally only set out for Bree to find Gandalf. When he was a no-show, Aragorn led them to Rivendell. While Rivendell was a safe haven, nobody particularly thought the Ring would be safe there]

The para about the fall of Boromir and the breaking of the Fellowship belongs in "The Two Towers", [Jackson moved these events to the first movie to provide a climax.]

Return of the King, 2nd last para: Delete "except Frodo" [he serves a term as Mayor].


Zube

Ok...will make those changes ASAP

OK, here's another posting of spelling and grammar mistakes. (Heehee, this is fun). Gnomon and Zubeneschamali, if ye have already poimted out anything here, sorry.

Dwarves section: "a, sometimes over-enthusiastic, love" --> "a sometimes over-enthusiastic love"

Balrogs and Maiar: "some where corrupted" --> "some were corrupted"

"visit this entry The Major Villians of The Lord of the Rings" --> "visit The Major Villians of The Lord of the Rings"

The Ring: "it's sole aim" --> "its sole aim"

1 Bilbo: "very small, however," --> "very small; however"

2 Bilbo: "end of the books" --> Surely that should be "end of the book"?

Merry: "A loyal friend he learns" --> "A loyal friend, he learns"

Pippin: "of Gondor, he even" --> "of Gondor; he even"

1 Gollum: "the Ring and it's power" --> "the Ring and its power"

2 Gollum: "by Bilbo Gollum tries" --> "by Bilbo, Gollum tries"

3 Gollum: "leads him to" --> this is correct, but is easier to understand as "leads Frodo to" Also, this whole scentence is a bit long; perhaps it could be split up a bit?

1 Aragorn: "through it's many trials" --> "through its many trials"

2 Aragorn: "he too will succumb" --> "he, too, will succumb"

Didn't Éomer and Éowyn have fadaí in their names? Also "she ends up with Faramir" is a bit easier to read as "so she ends up with Faramir"

Faramir: "influence refusing" --> "influence, refusing"

I'm sure that Gríma had a fada in his name.

Isildur: "are set, he is," --> "are set; he is,"

Arwen: "elf she chooses" --> "elf, she chooses" or "elf who chooses"

There is >definitely< a fada in Lothlórien.

Galadriel: "destiny's" --> "destinies"

Ringwraiths - you should mention that the Witch King is their leader.

Just a few more, to keep you going

Some of these may have been mentioned before, if that is the case, my apologies for wasting your valuable time...

You have a misplaced tag in the introduction.

Also in the intro "It includes spoilers" -> This entry/The following includes spoilers

The list overview of the entry: "The books, including publication" - You haven't really written anything on the publication

In the Races-section; Elves are the immortal beings -> Elves are immortal beings

cheers
~Bistro

I will make changes as soon as I have time, I promise

Changes made

No they're not! Quite a few of the changes which I suggested have not been done yet.

What happened to my post with all those suggestions? I must have preesed the wrong button again. Ah well, it looks like everybody has made plenty of suggestions anyway.

Here are some of the suggestions I thought I had made.

This entry is so big and full of different sections that you should try very hard to cut out anything that is not essential. Instead of saying 'Legolas is an elf from Mirkwood, the son of Thranduil, and prince of the realm' you could say 'Legolas is the son of the King of the Elves of Mirkwood'. This means you do not have to mention Thranduil, who does not appear in the book.

You could also leave out Celeborn. He is not important.

You say that Galadriel has one of the elvish rings, and that she is offered the power of the ring. It would be clearer if you said the power of the One Ring, to show it is not the elven ring you are talking about.

The heading 'The Two Towers' should be moved to just after Frodo leaves, taking Sam with him. That was the exact end of the Fellowship volume.

In the plot summary, you say that Frodo and Sam head off to Mordor, then Boromir 'throws his whole being into protecting the hobbits from an orc attack'. That should be 'the remaining hobbits'.

There is a word that is spelled wrongly: Villians should be Villains.

Luthiena, you said "Changes Made", but you clearly have not made all the changes we suggested. Are you going to make them?

If so, there isn't much point in us all looking at the entry until you have completed them, since we'll just be pointing out the same changes again and again. Already Zubeneschamali and Hussassan have pointed out a lot of the ones that I had mentioned. So can you let us know when you are finished.

If you're not going to make the changes we've suggested, perhaps you would care to explain why. It's your entry to do what you like with, but the editors will expect spelling mistakes to have been corrected before giving it to a sub-editor.

Overall a very nice article and a good summary of the book. However as a fully fledged Tolkein geek I have a number of corrections I'd like to make.

I know some debate has been made here but Illuvatar is *one* god and not "gods". Istari are Maiar spirits.
Maiar are therefor not *other* servants of the Valar.
Balrogs and Istari and Sauron (and Bombadil, Goldberry amongst others) are Maiar spirits.
I don't like the implication that a corrupted Maiar becomes a Balrog.
Balrogs were spirits of flame that were attracted to Melkor in the begining. They remain spirits of flame as Balrogs. There can be good spirits of flame - one carries the sun around the world.
I would prefer Morgoth referred to as (the first dark lord) instead of the primary evil in middle earth as by the Third Age he is expelled from the world and so is no longer *in* middle earth.

Is Frodo not Bilbo's nephew? You refer to him as a cousin.

I think you underplay Merry's part in the story, surely taking a hand in the downfall of the Witch King puts him up there with Tolkien's greatest heroes.

Er, when was Faramir offered the ring? I don't recall that in the book at all. Galadriel is the only one (other than Gandalf) who Frodo offers the ring as I recall.

The ring did not turn Isildur into an evil creature, it did not have time. Isildur died very soon after capturing the ring when it betrayed him at the Gladden Fields.
Is Elendil not worth a mention? He was the high king of Arnor and Gondor over Isildur (and his father) after all.

Again I don't really like the line regarding the Maiar as "created as servants of the Valar". Maiar are merely spirits of lesser potency. I've never seen a reference in any of Tolkein's writing saying that they were created as such.

Sam does not kill Shelob but does wound her to the point where she runs away.

Anyway, enough geekiness (it took many readings of both this and the Silmarillion to get where I am today). A fine article that should wing its way into the guide soon

Orcus

Orcus, much of what you say has been said before, which only reinforces the fact that Luthiena should make those changes. Frodo was not Bilbo's nephew, although they called him that in the film. He was a first cousin once removed on one side and a second cousin once removed on the other side. The term 'cousin' is adequate.

Orcus, I think Luthiena should steer clear of questions like whether Bombadil is a Maia, whether Balrogs have wings and whether the Starship Enterprise could beat an Imperial Star Destroyer in a space battle.

This entry must remain fairly high level if it is not to end up in seven books itself, even though the answers are obviously No, Yes and Only if Kirk is Captain, respectively.


Zube

* The layman returns *

I deliberately stepped away from this entry for a while to let all of you LOTR experts argue the toss as to what should and what shouldn't be included. Now on my return I see it has changed quite substantially.

My thoughts...

I'm a little sad to see that the short Tolkein biog has gone. I can see why it's gone what with there already being an edited entry about the chap. Fair do's.

I'm not sold on the need to have a spoiler alert. I've said before that many many people have read the book or seen the movies so you're not giving away secret knowledge here. Also if you think about it, all books carry some sort of a plot synopsis or blurb on their back cover to sell the thing. This entry in my eyes performs much the same role as that blurb, so I don't want to be warned off of reading it.

Length. It's getting a little on the long side for me. But I stress that that is my opinion. I am happy to bow to your collective knowledge as to what *really* needs to be included, which inevitably drives the overall length of the entry. Please don't make it much longer though...

The thread has reached the final nit-picking stage. Gnomon is being quite insistent that the nits need picking, or a reason given as to why they aren't going to be picked. I have to say when Gnomon does that, Scouts sit up and take notice. I as one of them wouldn't dream of picking this entry until some sort of a consensus has been reached about the final draft. But once that has been reached, I would be delighted to pick this entry.

So finally, have you converted me to the LOTR? Well, no you haven't actually. But you have created an approachable and informative entry that I enjoyed reading. So this is a major step forward when one considers that I have been unspeakably rude about the LOTR and all its dealings for over 20 years now.

Greydesk, I started nitpicking because I thought consensus had been reached on the content. But if that is still under discussion, I'll make the following points.

I too feel that the entry is getting too long; I agree with Llama that some sections could be omitted as it stands. If I were writing this, I'd probably leave out Celeborn, Eomer, Grima and Arwen. I'd put Isildur in as a footnote and combine Merry and Pippin together.

I also think that there should be a short section near the beginning about the writing and publication of the books, even if it adds to the length of the entry. It only needs to be five sentences.

A section on what the books mean would also be good, discussing the myth that they are an allegory of the second world war. Tolkien explicitly denies this in the introduction. He says that if the books were an allegory for the second world war, the ring would have gone to Minas Tirith, where Aragorn or some other person would have conquered the Dark Lord and set himself up as a new Dark Lord. You can get the exact wording in the Foreword.

Ok...I'm sorry about allthe changes not being made I must have overlooked a fair few when writing up again.

As for spelling mistakes...my computer is very temperatmental and seems to enjoy not letting me put accents over letters so I don't know what to do about that.

I was sure I had changed the Bilbo cousin / nephew thing....but I'll have another look

I'm sorry about the length

Don't apologize, Luthiena, I think it looks good!

It's always going to take awhile to get something of this scale through PR.


Zube

Well I thought it would, I can't find all the spelling mistakes or the suggestions....

I really want to make it right but so many people contradict each other that I don'tknow what to put in...and what to leav eout

Luthiena, your entry is right about the cousin thing. Orcus was wrong in this case, a very rare occurrence when it comes to Tolkien geekiness.

I don't know whether it is worth putting accents on all names. While Tolkien himself used them, they don't add much for the reader. It doesn't really matter whether it is Éomer or Eomer.

If you decide you want to put in the accents, assuming you are using Microsoft Windows, you can get most of the accents as follows. Make sure Num Lock is turned on. Hold down the Alt key. Type the code for the character on the numeric keypad. Release the Alt key. The codes are:

á 0225
é 0233
í 0237
ó 0243
ú 0250

Á 0193
É 0201
Í 0205
Ó 0211
Ú 0218