h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Are we talking aboutthe freedom from faith, or from religion, because I believe there is a difference between the two! Also, are you going to differentiate between different types of faith (and I'm _not_ talking about different religions or different branches of the same religion!)? Please can any one make this clear?

The name for this organization is based on a famous saying: "Freedom of religion must include freedom FROM religion." Can't remember who said it, but Anonymouse posted it when we were looking for a new name. I only changed "religion" to "faith" because of a penchant for alliteration, but it turned out to be a wise move, since there is a real organization out there called the "Freedom From Religion Foundation." Don't be confused by the name, though. The mission statement pretty much sums up what we're about... basically a place for people who think that religion is crap. We've got Atheists, Agnostics, Humanists, Taoists, Buddhists, and a Hermetic and a Quaker listed on the membership rolls. As long as you're convinced that Xtianity and its variants are rediculous, you'll feel comfortable here.

And what do it's varients include? Islam, Judaism? What about Hinduism or Seihks? While I know that Buddhism is generally considered a philosophy, and not a religion, it is the main "religion" for a few countries, and in any case one has to have faith in the idea of enlightenment for it to work for them.

I would say Islam and Judaism are in the "no" column, since they're both as annoying as xtianity. Buddhism is really just a nice philosophy masquerading as a religion, just like Hermeticism, so it's in the "yes" column. I'm not well educated about Hindu or Seihks (never heard of that one, even) but I will venture that if it involves a lot of praying, it belongs in the "just plain silly column."

We currently have a debate going on about faith and its application in atheism. As I said, don't read too much into the "Faith" part of the name, since it would read "Religion" if I didn't think "Faith" just sounded nicer, plus it made the abbreviation easier to write, and this way I avoid lawsuits.

So if I've got this right, if it involves praying, it's out because it's silly. If it's annoying it's also out (How do you define annoying, without saying it's like xianity/islam, etc?) It is possible that I misspelled Seik (see, tried another way), but it's another one from India. They're the ones who wear turbans, and don't cut their hair! And I will take a peek at that debate.

Dear Gargle Blaster,
If I may I would like to join with the Foundation and offer my support and help in it's mission, a good and just one. Please let me know if I may be of assistance and if I will be allowed to "Grandstand" at some stage with references to 'Liberty breaking her chains'. Also I would like, if I may, to rabble-rouse irresponsibly, peppering truth with a liberal amount of hubris and opinion. I mean, really, why to televangelists get to do it all the time and we mere taxpayers get to put up and shut up? If I had my way..... and whoops there I go again. Anyhoo give us a yell if I can help. Thanks, ... Ado!

Fantastic! We could use a little more hubris and opinion around here.

Consider your application approved. The initiation protocol is as follows:

1) Drop in and say hello to the rest of the Board, and introduce yourself. They in the currently active Business Thread, Numero 4.

2) Name your chair.

Once that process is complete, we can add your name to the rolls, and you can begin to enjoy the splendor and majesty that is the Freedom From Faith Foundation!

See, that extra hubris is having an effect already...

"Excellent, it's all coming together" Mr Burns circa '96

Thankyou, I will most assuredly name myself a chair and begin the work. For now I must a bed as it's four am here in Melbourne Aust.
Thanks again ---- Ado!

I don't think that Hinduism goes into the same category as Christianity and Islam. Hindus believe that all religions are valid and see people like Jesus as incarnations of Vishnu or Shiva. They also never (to my knowledge) killed anybody because they wouldn't convert.

Sikhism is a combination of Hinduism and Islam. It was basically started by this guy named Nanak. He took from each religion the ideas that he thought were right. He taught that there is one true god, like Islam, but that God could appear in many forms, like Hinduism. Nanak also believed in reincarnation and karma, which are Hindu principles, but rejected the practice of ahimsa (noninjury to living beings) because he believed that human beings were God's supreme creation. Nanak also thought that the ceremonialism and rituals of both religions was ridiculous. So, Sikhism has few rituals, and the ones they do have are simple. Nanak was also a pacifist, but after his death the Sikhs became more militant because their leaders were being assinated by Muslims.

I'm not sure where Sikhism fits in the whole FFFF picture. But, I hope I've cleared things up a little.

Thank you, Grey, that was very educational. I still don't know how GB defines silly, though, although I hope that there is a definition forthcoming!

You're welcome, Zozzie.

Don't be overly concerned with that "just plain silly" line, I was just making a flippant remark. It's a habit I have, and the reason my homepage sports an Official Disclaimer... don't take anything I say too seriously.

Just thought I'd add that Hinduism is not a missionary style religion because it's not possible to be converted to it. Either you're born a Hindu or you're not a Hindu. So that's why you've never heard of anybody being killed for refusing to convert. Trouble is, you still get fanatical Hindus who don't like members of other faiths. There's a lot of trouble in India between hardline Hindus and Muslims that has most certainly led to fatalities.

I think you can convert to Hinduism, I can't see any reason why not. Where did you get that you can only be born Hindu?

I read it in a book. Admittedly a guide book to India rather than a detailed treatise on the intricacies of the Hindu religion but it sounded genuine enough. I will ask around and confirm.

Metal Chicken

Your earlier comment, on fanatical hindu's, holds true for all faiths and religions though. Weonly know abouthose hardliners, who went out there and killed those not of the same faith, but, you know, that was only an excuse to do the killing and pwer grabbing that they wanted to anyway! We don't hear about the millions of innoffensive christians, who stay at home, and practice tolerance, if not acceptance, and whose worst act towards the non-believer, is to pray for their soul.

GB

It's not that I didn't think that you weren't being flippant, it's just that I am curious what constitutes a "silly" or "annoying" religion?

Everything is in good humor
Zoz.

You lost me there... too many negatives...

I'm an atheist, so I think all religions are silly. As for annoying, that depends on how much they're willing to live and let live. I don't mind things being silly, but I hate annoying.

Zozzie - I agree with you entirely on the minority existence of crazy fundamentalists in all religions - that was actually my point. I only specifically mentioned Hindus in response to an earlier comment that seemed to have Hinduism down as an all round unblemished nice guy.

Grey Rose - I hold my hand up and admit I was misled. It's true that you won't find missionary Hindus because attempting to convert anyone to anything is deeply frowned on and one of the major sources of friction with Christianity and Islam for example. However, there are schools of thought that permit converts, and others that imply the concept is nonsensical. I even found a website with a "Click here to become a Hindu" link (didn't go anywhere though...)
Enough. I begin to feel like I'm promoting a specific religion here. I only entered this conversation because I'm still trying to work out what you guys have invented the FFFF for.

Support. We're all anti-zealots.

In the case of GB, myself, GreyRose, ZenMondo, uhm, many others: We're American. The main threat to our continueing outlook on life is Christianity: a majority of Americans are actively trying to convert the minority.

We realise this happens all over the world, in various ways and perpitrated by many religions. We support each other in the decisions we have all made to not be a part of those [major] religions by pointing out where those religions went wrong, things that they've done wrong, and things that they continue to do that go against the very nature of civilized, moral, and healthy societies.

We are here to question the authority of the major religions over their subjects; their ability to make people intolerant and unreceptive to new ideas, people, and things. I suppose we all have the intuitiveness to see throught the convoluted inconsistencies of the Religious Right...

preacher auxilary
-jb

Those of us who are Americans feel threatened by the Christian influence in our politics, since they're always trying to do nonsensical things, like institute mandatory school prayer, teach Creationism as if it were a science, ban evolution teaching altogether, and generally force us all to live by their fundamental rules. It wasn't successful during Prohibition, and won't be successful now, but still they keep trying.

Those of us who aren't Americans still feel the influence, though, since most countries outside the US still give the church a measure of political power. In the US, their power is only based on the number of votes they can scrape together, but in the UK, officials of the Anglican Church still wields secular power simply by virtue of his office. I saw a link for a secular society in the UK that is fighting this, to bring about something like the seperation of church and state (however imperfectly) that exists in the US. If someone has it handy, I think I need to add it to the FFFF page.

Anyway, a lot of us were brought here because of our intense distrust of Christianity specifically, and any fundamentalist religion in general. I created this thing because I thought it would be refreshing to have a circle of friends with whom I could share my views, since there are so few people around my neck of the woods who can share this type of conversation with me. We basically just discuss religions and religious issues. We've had xtian vs. atheism debates. We've had atheism vs agnosticism vs taoist vs humanist vs everything else debates. If you're a non-believer, and you like to talk about religion, then this is a good place for you. If believers annoy the hell out of you, it's an even better place for you. If you really couldn't care less about religion, then this place isn't well suited to you.

Anyway, the mission statements on the FFFF page are our stated goals, so there isn't much point in belaboring the issue. If we were out to eradicate xtians, or convert them, then that would have been stated. Certain members may see it as a goal worth pursuing, but it is not a mission of the Foundation as a whole. It's a place for discussion. It's a place for nonbelievers to feel welcome, and to be able to speak their minds without fear of offending people. It's a place to find information from the nonbeliever's side of the equation. That's about it.