h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Have any of you thought about the question of whether evil is learned or something imposed from the outside or maybe just inherent in our natures? Because if love is the opposite of evil, and we believe that some people are naturally loving, then doesn't it follow that some people are naturally evil?

I have used this story before, but don't remember where. If you have heard it, I apologize.

I read many years ago about a nun who was a nurse and worked at a large maternity hospital in India. Supposedly this nun could look at the infants and know which ones were going to turn out badly. She believed that some people are born without souls, and that these are the people who are truly evil. I'm not saying that I believe this, but the notion has intrigued me ever since.

On a personal level, I knew a couple who had a young son. I knew the child from about the age of 6 months until they moved away when he was 7. From the time he was a baby, he was mean and selfisn and sneaky and a liar. I always said he would be in prison by the time he was 18. I have no idea if I was correct or not because I was more than happy to lose track of the family. But this was definitely not a child filled with love and innocence. This child made me wonder if the nun was on to something.

Any ideas?

Hyp

I can't really comment on the stories you tell, but I felt I had to say one thing.

I do not feel that love is the opposite of evil. I think love lies at the centre, beyond duality, the concepts of good and evil. Love is the answer, not the opposite of anything.

I really want to say no more on it. While I can respect that you wish to contiunue to discuss evil and its ins and outs, I'm afraid I choose to withdraw from this conversation.

But I send my love to you all, so no worries.

I do not think there are souless humans.
Maybe humans with holes or damage in their souls but not souless.

I haven't really read the backlog properly, so I hope my answer fits.

I tend to believe in reincarnation, so if a person was really hateful in one life, or conversely really loving, I can see where that might carry over into a next life. But most people tend to forget their past lives, unless they experience them in dream fragments or hypnosis. Maybe this forgetfulness is a second chance to make a fresh start.

What I emphatically don't believe in is the concept of "original sin". I don't believe we are all bad from the get go and in need of mercy. It's hard to say whether evil springs from nature or nurture; I guess I would say it's a mixture of birth.

I don't think you can look at a baby and know how they will turn out. I remember being in a bookstore one time and flipping through a history book. I can across a picture of the most adorable baby with a sweet grin on it's face. I thought to myself, what a doll, and then I read the caption -- it was Adolf Hitler! The next picture of him was in grade school, where he looked very sullen. It was hard to believe it was the same child.

There was a very funny website I saw a little while back, that had pictures of somewhat famous murderers and somewhat famous computer scientists. They were all mixed together, and you had to try and guess which was which. It was really hard, some of the most sinister looking ones were just your average computer geek!

JEllen

Hi again, I actually found the link to that quiz for any who want to take it! LOL

http://www.malevole.com/mv/misc/killerquiz/

I got 6 out of 10, JEllen. It was suggested that I not choose a career in law enforcement.

Momenta, if you're lurking, I'm sorry we got away from the original topic.

I have always thought that original sin made more sense in the context of reincarnation. The notion that someone can inherit sin or pass it along to subsequent generations is so unfair that it can't be valid.

Hyp, no I'm not lurking, I posted less than a day ago. The reason I don't want to take part is not topic drift, which is not really a problem. As far as I see it fluid sprituality can be applied to more or less anything, except duality which contradicts its basic principals by separating.I don't want to talk about evil repeatedly. It comes up on spiritual boards all over the place, over and over. Like a snake chasing it's tail there is no answer, because the whole argument is fatally flawed, whichever direction it is approached from. But if others want to do that I'm happy to go and leave you to it.

While I began this thread it doesn't belong to me. Perhaps fluid spirituality has run it's course in it's present format. It's no problem.

See you guys around. I'll still pop in I'm sure.

Hello JEllen, pleased to meet you. I just cannot believe babies are born evil, after all there is a period of gestation from conception when all sorts of earthly things impinge on the embryo, physical and spiritual,or psychological if you like. As abbi writes, these things intertwine so the "end" product could well be classed as "evil" but it is still no fault of the babe. Perhaps the nun in Hypatia's story was somehow instrumental in that!! JEllen, you wrote:- "It's hard to say whether evil springs from nature or nurture; I guess I would say it's a mixture of BIRTH." Was that a deliberate mistake? It has set my mind a-conjuring!! (grins) Never any offence intended.

Love, ed.

Very not deliberate, maybe you can call it a freudian slip, I meant to say "both."

Yes,it really bothers me the notion that everyone is born in original sin - I really disagree with that. (That's one of the reasons I left Catholicism for the Unitarian church) I guess the point I was trying to make is that you can have two children raised in the same family, living under the same conditions, treated the same, yet with radically different personalities from an early age. It's as if they have a past even before birth that influences them uniquely, and if you believe in reincarnation, that becomes a possibility.

JEllen

Identical twins?

I think the jury is still out on reincarnation, JEllen. It could just as easily be "possession", shared existence, parallel lives, or something beyond our conscious reckoning.

I think the myth of Adam and Eve is a timeless metaphor set within the bounds of ancient Jewish thinking. For me, the "ingredients" play on us all in every living moment and most likely during sleep, too. We continually and unconsciously make the kind of choices Adam and Eve were purported to have made because, like the originators of the story, we are not awake to our potential. That which has created us, we also are. " I and the Father are one!" In essence we must be the Creator too. I think so-called sin is the wavering course consciousness takes about this timeless, spaceless essence as it tries to home in on it, where full creative potential awaits. Thoughts, leading to actions, which are off-beam set up tension with our core essence, which, without we believe it is there, brings about the illusion in our minds that an opposite force is at work. The notion of duality establishes and we miss our birthright. If "sin" is a valid concept to our present state it is only against ourself, in the denial of our wholeness, i.e. we are a whole lot more whole than we think we are!! The Creator just IS. Let the thunder and lightning roll! Let the mighty ocean roar!

Anyone fancy walking on water? (grin)

Love, ed.

Beautifully put Ed. I couldn't agree more.

No more to say. A dance on water would be delightful though.



ps mmm yummy words!

An enthusiastic second on Eds post

Nice post from Jellen ,so good to see you here

After that affirmation, I can only bring to mind abbi's Olympic Rings analogy from a post way back.

Dancing on water, momenta, phew; can I practice on a bouncy castle? ( I hate them really)

Much love, ed.

If you like Ed!

I don't think water and bouncy castles have quite the same quality, but it would make me giggle anyway, so do carry on.

Blessed and Bubbly Greetings To All Of You!!!!!

Just stumbled upon this place and thought I'd look around. Love it so far!!!

Read most of the thread and love the "fluid spirituality" theory. I am an OCP in The Church Of Spiritual Humanism and I like the thought patterns here as they are greatly diverse, thoughtfully explored, and all show authentic personalities behind the words.

I will stop in from time to time. I am currently working on a thread that fully explains my position on many things spiritual,religious,and psychic.

All things are related and all things are relative.

Merry meet to all and I look forward to many lively discussions with you all.

Namaste' And Blessed Be!!!

Welcome!
Oh goodie, another new poster to return soon
I bet you have some yummy words of your own (momentas phrase)


Ed I was picturing the Olympic Rings when I read your post!

Hello purplesalmon. Welcome.

You might also enjoy some of the other conversations here at the Circle. Which reminds me that I need to prod some of them along.

Momenta, I found a lovely quote this morning that I posted to ed's thought for the day thread. It is quite fluid.


H

Hyp

Btw Abbi, the reason I mentioned yummy words was because I seem to have a habit of having to eat mine!

Better tasting than crow.

H