h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Entry: Pronouncing British Place Names - A16352381
Author: Icy North - U225620

Thanks guys!

OK, I've gone for Trin's suggestions, but I've hedged it a bit on Kirkcaldy - hope that's OK.

I've also mentioned Shrewsbury & Holburn, and I've added Keynsham which I accidentally left out.

(That's for a bonus point - can you pronounce Keynsham, a town near Bristol? - it was also the title of an album by the Bonzo Dog Band)

Icy

Keynsham - that improves my score slightly (A13664388 )

OK Danny, I've added a footnote, and you'll get your link in due course!

Any other link requests, post 'em here...

I'd have to argue with you as to the pronunciation of Hunstanton - I've always heard it pronounced exactly as it reads. What's your source on that one?

Here's some more:

Just west of Norwich - Costessey (pronounced 'Cozzy')
Both near Portsmouth - Bosham (pronounced 'Bozzum') and Cosham (pronounced 'Coshum')

Thanks Alex - there are lots of 'Hunston' sources out there, including Encyclopaedia Britannica: http://jcsm.org/StudyCenter/Encyclopedia_Britannica/HOR_I25/HUNSTANTON_commonly_pronounced.html and Wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hunstanton

As with all these names, I've had to make a decision about whether a local pronunciation is the generally accepted one. But I appreciate you're from that bootiful part of the world, and if you can convince me that 'Hunston' is wrong, then I'll remove it.

You might be interested in this link, which has some very unusual East Anglian local pronunciations - most of which I couldn't verify: http://www.foxearth.org.uk/blog/2005/07/suffolk-placenames-and-how-they-should.html

Now I know about the Pompey ones, as that's my patch. Cosham = 'coshum' is one of those Shrewsbury-alternatives, and I think the 'official' version is 'cossum', which let's face it is more difficult to spot. 'Bozzum' is correct.

Icy

The variations (in my experience, anyway) seem to depend on how many of the 'locals' are actually local. For example, I lived in Didcot for a year, and then up the road in Abingdon for at least another year before I found out that Didcot is pronounced Didc't. Thing is, most of the people I know in this area aren't originally from Oxfordshire, so the pronunciation tends to be phonetic and, in the case of Didcot, isn't far enough from the original to cause people to correct it (or point and laugh at the 'furriner', or whatever...)

Similarly, I never knew (until reading this Entry!) that the river Cherwell was pronounced 'Charwell'. Again, none of the people I might ever have heard using the word Cherwell are actually from Oxford (in term time [or even out of term time], what percentage of the population of Oxford is actually *from* Oxford? Not a lot, I'd wager...)

I think 'sometimes referred to' or 'often pronounced' would be better for Hunstanton

When I lived near Witney, I heard folk say 'Charwell' every now and again - mostly those odd people who played Aunt Sally in the pub gardens which back on to it. Didn't see too many Oxford dons in there, I admit.

Well, if you will do things like living in Witney...

Alex, that's the thing with most of these. It depends who you're talking to. A British Rail ticket office will have heard it all before, so you'll get away with most things (but not Sluff). If you ask directions in a village or a transport caff, you'll probably need the correct pronunciation.

At least it didn't flood...

What no Northern Irish ones?

Here are some of the ones I have mispronounced.

Magherafelt - Mac-ra-felt
Strabane - Stra-BAN (not bane)
Fintona - FINT-nah
Clogh Mills - Clock Mills
Cultra - Cool-TRAW
Holywood - Holly-wood (even though it is spelt holy)
Coleraine - Coal-rain
Craigavon - Either Portadown or Lurgan depending on which part of the 'new town' you hail from.
Londonderry - (Best say Stroke City the locals will not take offence then)

I didn't feel qualified to tackle Irish ones, so I'll leave it for someone else to pick up. I guess they're similar both sides of the border? There are some more in the Looburroo thread (see posting 1).

Icy

Another great entry

I couldn't spot any mistakes, just acouple of oddities -

Is Worcester really pronounced Wusster? I would've said Wooster, but I never spent much time there so happy to be corrected.

Tamar, to me, is pronounced exactly as you would think so doesn't really belong here.

You could add Combe, pronounced Coom, meaning small valley in the SW, as in Castle Coombe racing circuit. This gives some background:

http://members.fortunecity.com/gerdewnansek/placenames.html

I'd definitely say Kercoddy and Mullguy, but I'm from Edinburgh so what do I know. Keynsham (Cane-shum) is good; lived there for a bit too

Thanks Dave

I'll think about including '-combe'. My reference says
<"deep hollow or valley, especially on flank of a hill," mainly surviving in place names, from O.E. cumb, probably a British word, from Celt. base *kumbos (cf. Welsh cwm in same sense).>

I reckon we normally shorten the sound to '-cm' (High Wycombe, Morecambe, Salcombe), but on its own we say it as 'coom' (Castle Coombe) Can you think of any exceptions? I'm not sure about Templecombe, Somerset. I don't know anywhere that says 'comb'.

Not sure which sound is closer to the Welsh 'cwm', as in Cwmbran (Valley of the Crow) and Cwmtwrch (Valley of the Wild Boar). Any Welsh speakers?

I'll remove Tamar if others agree it's obvious.

Icy

There is a Coombe near us (coom)
It is near New Malden (maul-dn)
There is a Coombe near Croydon / Shirley sort of end of things as well.


~W

Hi Wilma

Try as I might, I can't imagine New Malden as the valley of the wild boar. Someone once told me it has the largest Korean community in Europe. Not a lot of people know that

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Norridge born and bred - I'm qualified to answer these! The old boys will pronounce it 'Hunston', but the younger generation tend to pronounce it as it's spelled. Happisburgh is definitely 'Hays-brur', though.

<> If you're going to include that one, I'd argue for 'Cossy'

Brilliant Entry, Icy. The scouts will be fighting over this one!

Thanks, DDD

The link in post 25 prefers 'cossy' as well. I like that one - I think I'll add it.

If 'Hunston' is good enough for the old boys, then I'll keep it. I won't let these young whippersnappers like Ashman destroy our culture.

I'm welsh by parentage, not location but will have a try at 'cwm':

Halfway between english short comb and long combe (cooom) - or perhaps between cum and comb.