h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

So if Europe's bad and we pull out of the EU, just who's going to subsidise our farmers? And Wales?

If the UK / GB pulled out of Europe that might be the final thing that pushes me to take citizenship of the place where I live and work.

But then you would need to change your nickname to Scho.

They might not want you Sho.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11559451

But Sho does speak German. And she waits at red lights*, too.

* the pedestrian variety.

The linked article is a masterpiece of crap journalism - cut & paste snippets of a speech are never good at conveying what was said.

Doubtless, Merkel's playing to the gallery to a certain extent (that's another problem, but one for a different thread. Politicians are supposed to show leadership, win people over, persuade people, not adopt the currently-most-popular position. We need a paradigm shift here). But I think her message was a bit more nuanced than it has been portrayed in the UK.

I don't think anyone in the UK can complain about money going into the European Union. We are always willing to run to Europe with the begging bowl when we need to.

<<"'Multikulti' is dead," Mr Seehofer said.>>

what they forgot to add was what they were thinking!!!!

"it didn't work in 1939, its not working now!!!!!!!

How very sensible of them. A part of the United Kingdom but contracted out of the bits they don't like. They don't seem to be suffering from their exclusion. Perhaps Westminster has something to learn from them? I certainly have.

Perhaps Westminster already has learned from them, because that sounds a bit like Britain's relationship with the EU.

Oh yes, I'd be Scho. I'm more German than a lot of Germans I know - most of my neighbours are very sloppy (for eg) about separating their rubbish. I'm a model citizen.

I actually tick all the boxes - but I'm not ready to be German yet, I will do it if GB pulls out of the EU though.

As for the multikulti thing - they are driving me absolutely mental with it. Integration is good, learning German is essential, learning some of the rules and regulations can only be good.

But... on the other hand the Germans have to integrate too. It's worse than living in Yorkshire sometimes for rejecting foreigners!!

KB....Get real. We may go to Europe to ask for money but it's our money we're asking for. Money we shouldn't have given them in the first place. Look at the amounts of money wasted on unelected bureaucrats and European parliamentarians who seem to be responsible to no one. We should opt out of as much of the European legislation as we can. Then we can support own farmers and our industrialists, Wales too if that's necessary.

"European parliamentarians", as you put it, are no more unaccountable than David Cameron and Co. If they don't get the votes they don't get the seats.

Can I ask you, though, why you think Britain is part of the EU at all? What the government's motives are? It's certainly not altruism.

Well you won't get anything mealy mouthed from me about excusing the the *actual leader* of a nation coming out with stuff like Merkle did. There are ways of having debate and conversation about such issues, but the way she went about it disgusts me. If a British PM behaved like that there'd be an absolute outcry. It's stuff like that, that actually makes me feel rather pleased about my nationality. And of course there was the recent Sarkozy behaviour over the Roma.

Soft racists like my father have suddenly got rather pro European..or should I say pro western European. He now sings their praises.

I don't like it, and if the EU goes more down that road, I'll be happy to leave. We have a massive population of people from the former colonies of the Empire..and we do everything we can to try to slowly go through the problems of integration and racial tensions.

So to me it all depends how things go politically in Europe.

Effers, one of the things that struck me about Merkel's comments is precisely how close it is to the type of comments I hear British people making all the time, sad as that is. Just take your pick from any number of political threads on Askh2g2 or comments at the end of BBC News stories. You'll see the same immigrant hysteria and talk about "Multi-culti" failing.

KB did you not see my, >about excusing the the *actual leader* of a nation<?

That's my point. It carries huge weight when a leader says stuff like that. It's an altogether different thing from Joe Bloggs saying it. It gives succour to all sorts of people with far nastier views. I've argued with Ed about this in the past, when he talked about encouraging fellow travellers,but I pointed out, its just an internet message board for discussion.

If I was in a position of power..I'd think incredibly carefully about what I said on such an incredibly sensitive and potentially incendiary subject.

I did, yes. And it *is* an important distinction. But that doesn't put Britain on the moral high-ground, it just means there's more of a disconnect between what politicians say and what people on the ground say in Britain.

It has nothing to do with putting Britain on any moral high ground..it's about feeling you are part of a nation that would have no tolerance or truck with a leader coming out with such stuff.

It's really very simple for me when it comes to stuff like that.

But so much of the nation would have tolerance for it. And admiration. That's the problem.

I admire the Germans for talking about the whole multi-kulti thing in a very open way. Germany definitely has history to contend with - but I have to say I like the way they will bite the bullet and come out with it.

However - I do think that they are putting too much of the emphasis on the people coming in rather than the people here making space for them and making them welcome.

As a foreigner in Germany I can observe it, and the sad thing is that (my ability to speak German and pay a shedload of tax aside) I'm not treated in the same way as other foreigners because I, to put it bluntly, look like a German.

But at least it's an open and ongoing dialogue here.

I'm not sure the same is true for France (toybox?) or Italy. Or even places like Denmark and Holland.

Germany, in common with other western nations needs immigrants because the birth rate is too low. The least we can do is help them to integrate.

<>

i used to get that as well

and with a smattering of german and a little effort i used to get help in the shops and they would try to help me in english, while my compatriots who didn't put in the effort got the old, nicht vishtain, from the shop keepers

funny lot your average german