h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Sorry I've lost my card but my babies are starving. Brave call by the AO behind the counter at the benefit office to turn the lady away.

if everything is on the card ,and by what tony blair is saying there are more things on it than on a passport ,a card is all you need , like everything else like it or lump it ,its just more money for people to cough up ,

Will anyone pay £93 for the watered down version we are now being offered? Bear in mind that as in all cases ith this government it will b more than £100 when we get to buy one - if compelled.

Commnts?
Novo

Just one point... the £93 figure being bandied around is simply the press taking the total (estimated) cost of implementing the system and dividing it by the whole population of the UK...

Yes, it might well cost everyone £93 eventually... but I imagine a lot of that £93 will have been hidden in income tax, VAT, business taxes, cigarette & alcohol taxes, etc... I very much doubt even this government would be stupid enough to try to get people to buy, what will initially be a 'voluntary' card, for that sort of figure.

Novo,
You will, like me, no doubt be amongst the 80% of law abiding citizens who will be compelled to invest £93 in a worthless piece of plastic that will link you to any number of government databases.

I have no problems with my background, having been 'checked' many times including recent criminal records clearance to work with youngsters. What is disturbing is when the systems go wrong as with the 183 cases the criminal records systems recently cocked up.

Going back to benefits fraud, how about: Oh sorry mandame the system says your ID isn't valid so I'm afraid your babies are going to have to starve.

>Sorry I've lost my card but my babies are starving. Brave call by the AO behind the counter at the benefit office to turn the lady away.<

So i presume your solution is to allow benefit fraud to continue with no attempt to stop it at all?

>if everything is on the card ,and by what tony blair is saying there are more things on it than on a passport ,a card is all you need , like everything else like it or lump it ,its just more money for people to cough up<

No. If I have a passport I don't need a card, rather than vice versa.

>Will anyone pay £93 for the watered down version we are now being offered? Bear in mind that as in all cases ith this government it will b more than £100 when we get to buy one - if compelled.<

I'm not aware that we are being offered a 'watered down' version. The EARLIEST estimates for the first issue is 2008, so I don't suppose that it will be a 'watered down' version at all.

No,
The £93 was a figure announced by the Government yesterday and does not include IT setup.

>I very much doubt even this government would be stupid enough to try to get people to buy, what will initially be a 'voluntary' card, for that sort of figure.,

Stupid or not, that is Gordon's line. He will NOT back the scheme if he is required to subsidise the costs from his budget.

Which is a very smart move from *him*, politically.

Yes and going off thread for a minute I see yesterday that the most wonderful Chancellor since the beginning of life as we know it has adopted his neighbours policy of announcing half baked ideas as policy.

New Labour has the poorest record for years on building social housing, worse than Maggie. So what does he do OK lets susidise first time buyers. Just like Maggie selling council house. Oh sorry you can't aford to rent a house never mind we'll turn you into a first time buyer.

When, where, err we'll get back to you on that one.

I'm still interested to hear your plans for cutting benefit fraud without tightening ID requirements at point of collection.

Hang on a minute I thought we needed ID cards to fight the war on terror. You tell me how they will do that.

Oh and how about adminsitering the NI number system efficiently. Or how about investing some money, or getting our oh so hard up banks to invest some money in getting bank accounts for the sink population that the banks and the Post Office, just announced record eficiency and bonuses, won't touch with a barge pole. If all benefits were paid electronically that would reduce fraud.

I make no claims whatever that they will combat terrorism. And I never have.

Interesting points all, but the chances of the banks co-operating are about zero, regrettably.

Well get the Universe's finest Chancellor to tax the butts off them until they do. Sounds like an easy equation to me. Tax the banks to compensate for benefit fraud until the fraud reduces as more cliamants can be paid electronically. i.e. no fraud = no tax. Easy.

It's an intriguing idea, and as somone who thinks the banks (amongst others - I mean, a company making over £1M a day in profits is not 'In crisis' as M&S claim to be) make far too much money I'd happily see it implemented.

BUT

You'd better be prepared to pay all those extra banking charges that woulsd automatically be levied in order to protect their profit margins.

That's an interesting point you made BS about Brown keeping the Treasury well out of the whole ID card debate. As a political move, it's highly reminiscent of his refusal to get dragged into funding the Dome back during Labour's first term.

Fingerprints - apparently it don;t work too well on people with fat fingers.
Facial recognition, doesn;t work to well on people over 59 either.

Which in a population which is increasingly older and fatter, is rather amusing.

And I guess we can expect the various terrorist organisations to start recruiting old, fat, black terrorists very soon, yes?

In other news today:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4581943.stm

UK Terror threat level reduced.

Of course, the problem with all this has nothing to do with the biometrics. it has everything to do with the backend databases and the IT staff who support them. Every company I have worked at has always had at least one person whose job it is to rectify accounts where the details have been corrupted or cross populated.
But this is also usually reactive (in many ways it has to be).
So the first you know that your details have been confused with those of someone wanted is when the police drag you in for questioning.

No, no, no the wunderkind would make the tax progressive and in line with his centralist control credentials limit the ammount of tax that can be passed on to customers. What would be the point of charging benefit claimants high bank charges.

Ictoan,

Absolutely correct, the Government has been moving very quickly from paper based records to electronic records. But they do not have the IT skills to prevent cock ups when databases collide. A genuine worry for the man on the No6 Bus.

Leaving aside the bile-filled sarcasm at Gordon Brown (perhaps you'd prefer the badger Lamont back? ) no government would or could be seen to be exercising that level of interference in the independant banking system, and rightly so.

WA - guess what I do for a living?