h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Hi everybody!

I'm starting to write an article for my Prince of Dorkness column in The Post about the on-going furore about roleplaying games and religion (specifically American right-wing Christian groups). Anybody have any thoughts on the subject as, if possible, I'd like to be able to present both sides of the arguement rather than just saying 'these people hate Dungeons and Dragons, therefore they are wrong.'

Unsurprisingly my attempts to directly contact the groups involved in the whole 'roleplaying is evil' thing have come up with nothing.

Well, I think the objections are partly based on a misunderstanding. Many roleplaying games involve metaphysical entities (gods, demons, spirts, other planes of existence etc). My guess is that even if the game is run as a good versus evil game with the players as the good guys and girls, the person running the game would still have to come up with something to depict evil - evil temples, human sacrifices, demons, pentagrams, magic and so on. Of course, not all games are good v evil, and some can consist of the pursuit of power by the players regardless of the consequences. The old AD&D rules used to have rules for *becoming* a necromancer or something like that, or (I think) even playing undead/evil charaters and not just *fighting* them. And at there's at least one game (Call of Cthulu) that's actually about the occult. Now those who play the game know it's not real, but someone listening to isolated bits of game could easily be alarmed by the kind of things that come up and the easy way that people slip into 'character', and the amount of death and destruction in your average game.

Although I've enjoyed playing roleplaying games, I'd want to keep an eye on what kind of games my kids (if I ever have any) were playing. I think your classic pseudo-musketeers or psuedo-Tolkien game would be fine, but I have heard about other games run in a moral vacuum which have really been some kind of sick wish-fulfilment games where the laws of morality no longer apply. Particularly if the only players are adolescent boys.

They're also potentially addictive. Although it could be argued that it's better to be in a dark room rolling dice than outside stealing cars or sniffing glue, it is possible to become obsessed with roleplaying games and with particular characters. Almost anyone who's ever played roleplaying games would almost certainly have come across people who live only through the game and do or think about almost nothing else.

And perhaps there's a verse in the Bible that says dice should only have six sides....

Oh, I hope so. Then I can add 'possesion of a 10-sided die' to the list of 'reasons I'm going to Hell'.

I have always put it down to the fact that 'The Church' does not want people doing things that get them thinking for themselves; making their own moral decisions; creating a fantasy world full of characters and basically coming to realise once they have got a mind of their their own that the Bible and all its fantastic stories is not too far removed from the world that can be created in a role-playing environment. That is the danger for The Church.

It is along the same lines that The Church does not like hypnotism. They hypnotism is bad because it lets a persons guard down and the Devil can influence them easier (I have sat in a room full of people telling me this!). I put it down to the fact that hypnotism shows how the human mind is so susceptible to suggestions and how it can be tricked it a certain way of thinking.

hmm, well I would help, but I've never come across anything that makes me thing religion hates role-playing.

I think they're scared of all our gods.

"I have always put it down to the fact that 'The Church' does not want people doing things that get them thinking for themselves; making their own moral decisions; creating a fantasy world full of characters and basically coming to realise once they have got a mind of their their own that the Bible and all its fantastic stories is not too far removed from the world that can be created in a role-playing environment. That is the danger for The Church"

I don't think it's got anything to do with that. Christians believe that the Bible and the Church's teachings are Truth. They don't secretly believe that games or anything else are going reveal their terrible falsehoods since they don't believe they are falsehoods. Certainly, if they're worried about people questioning their fundaments, there are far more important things than games (especially those which are openly based in fantasy).

I think the problem is twofold - first Roleplaying is a minority pastime and therefore misunderstood, secondly it contains elements of fictional magic and since Christians believe in magic and believe it is used by anti-Christian forces they believe that these games can be a rites-of-passage into 'real' magic use.

.. and some Christian groups with an extremely tenuous grip on reality believe that RPGs involve 'real' magic and saying 'real spells' and carrying out 'real rituals'.

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Such as the group who claim they used to be Satanist magicians before finding God and that Gary Gygax was in regular contact with them to make sure the spells and rituals presented in D&D were accurate.

Indeed. Those that missed the last bus to reality, in other words.

The deeply ironic thing about all this is that Gary Gygax and Dave Arneson are both Christians.

I haven't played any of the pen & paper things but I have played some computer games based on them and can confirm that players still have plenty of opportunity to dabble in necromancy either as wizards or even as priests .

Then there are all those Star Wars games where you can fall to the dark side.

Yes, if you took it too seriously I could see how it might be offensive. But honestly I just don't think people turn evil on the basis of Dungeons & Dragons/Grand Theft Auto/Doom/stuff from the point of view of the vampire.

This stuff is a riot. I did a search on D&D and the occult. I came across Chick publications, which I had seen before, and some parody site, which I hadn't. I love Dark Dungeons where D&D players get to cast real spells [http://www.chick.com/reading/tracts/0046/0046_01.asp]. There's also an updated article on whether or not christians should play D&D [http://www.chick.com/articles/frpg.asp]. It's even updated for third edition.

Just to be fair and balanced, here's a link to an MST3K take on Dark Dungeons [http://www.planetadnd.com/humor/DD-MST3K/?file=dd-mst3k.php]. Do a Google search on D&D and the Occult. It's a hoot.

I wonder if this is why my DM called and canceled for the night. Serves me right for having a christian DM.

"Oh, I hope so. Then I can add 'possesion of a 10-sided die' to the list of 'reasons I'm going to Hell'."

If that was the case this individual is definately damned:

http://membres.lycos.fr/arjan/extra.htm

This chap likes his dice...........


Cheers,

G

Don't lose sight of your original post .
Not all Christians are so radical, you would be wise not to blanket them all together.

I know, several of my friends (not to mention my wife!) are Christians.

I chose the American right-wing Christians as my specific example as they're the main perpetrators of the anti-D&D propaganda.

Definetely as Teasawill says; not all Christians/Christian groups feel this way.
Personally, I have only encountered any comment in church community once by a priest and it was along the lines of Zayreb's comment; how the concern is that the magic can be real even without the player "meaning it" as evil is very tricky and takes advantage of any opportunity. Do with that what you will.
My dislike and objection follows Otto's comment that it is addictive and THANK YOU! for someone else saying so; I feel like I am the only person in the Galaxy that truly sees this as an addiction and I have gone far enough to say a sickness. Not EVERYONE of course; some people drink responsibly and others are nasty alcoholics. Just the potential for addiction is there and it never seems to leave; it can cause real problems. But I digress from the original point of this thread.
I think people should worry less about that sort of thing; to me, if someone wants to worship Satan there are lots of ways they will find to do it and D&D will not be the root of it; nor will Harry Potter. I mean, if someone is that easily influenced, the Dark Side will seduce them with something.........we just need more exposure to truth, kindness, prayer, faith, etc.,....equal time, if you will. For every D&D game say one Hail Mary
A bigger concern is the suceptibility to violence from the computer/video versions. Alot of psychologists are linking teen violence with these video games........
ah, woe is me!
I guess these groups really believe that they are doing the right thing and helping the world out; I'm sure their intentions are wonderful. But, God gave us free will and no matter how you regulate someone's activities if they have negative desires they will find a way; they will do magic or spells with Christian items if that is all they have; hence the upside down crucifix being the symbol of Satan etc. I mean, not that you want someone surrounded by this; that is where balance comes in; but as someone gets older they don't have mom dragging them to mass or whatever and you have to hope they are stable enough to handle fantasies of any kind; be it a sci-fi horror movie or a game..............

All things in moderation, then? I agree...

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Personally I've never encountered this. True, my gaming friends and I talk about it when not gaming but we're definitely not addicted. From what I can gather from bits and bobs of research over the weekend those who do get addicted to RPGs (to the point of really believing in it) tend to have mental issues anyway.

I'd also like to reiterate that I *wasn't* tarring all Christains with the same brush. I am well aware that not all Christians are fire-and-brimstone-you'll-go-to-hell-for-enjoying-yourself types. As with all religions it's the scary fanatics who get all the press. I'm sure that there are 'normal' Christians who object to D&D as well. Like I said, my wife's a Christian, she also plays D&D. She recognises that it's make believe and regularly fails to have any crises of faith as a result of playing.