h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Yay Pope:

About "eternal life" [Pope Benedict XVI] now asks: "Do we really want this - to live eternally? It appears more like a curse than a gift." Elsewhere he finds: "The atheism of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries is - in its origins and aims - a type of moralism: a protest against the injustices of the world and of world history."

That's why "I heart the pope".

Isn't this great? Doesn't this nullify some of the critiques leveled against this pope?

Interesting. Pope Palpatine certainly picks his words carefully, so I'd like to read more. It seems a little opposed to his other statements about rationalism, moral relativity and the like being evils in the guise of decency, and his commitment to salvation through the One True Church of Peter (Tm). It can be a bit difficult to unwrap his cunning: whatever else you say about Darth Benedict, he ain't thick.

Still, if more major religious leaders were to make real positive efforts towards promoting justice and goodness in *this life* rather than acting so consistently as bastions of traditionalist repression, then I would be inclined to drop my grudge against them to a nominal level (think they're a bit silly, somewhat concerned with their influence on children and in schools).

A lot of the smaller religious groups splintered off for these very reasons I think.

I always think of the pope as an advert for atheism. Funny that.

Is this the same holy man who recently issued a lengthy 'official' document in which he said atheism was responsible for some of the "greatest forms of cruelty and violations of justice" in history?

I suppose he has never read his holy book

Isn't that Rule 1 for a leader aspiring to 'The Great'?

"Ascribe, to thine enemy, thine own faults"?

"I suppose he has never read his holy book"

Or his history book. Numerous atrocities have been carried out in the name of God whilst none have been carried out in the name of atheism. And no, communist atrocities do not count. Marxist-Leninism was the driving force behind them, not atheism.

>>And not a one come to any satisfying level for either side<<

For my own part I find the taking part in the process of conversation and debate itself to be fascinating, so long as there is not too much unnecessary aggro. In threads I have taken part in, the vast majority of the time, this is not the case, and there is much to be learned from the process itself. I find the discussion on this site in general to be far more satisfying and informative, than on other discussion site I've encountered. So it all depends on what one's expectations are. At school we used to have debates regularly on political and religious subjects. They invariably got quite heated. But we all agreed how worthwhile they were in themselves, whatever the rather meaningless vote at the end of the debate. I think overall it's a healthy thing in a democracy for people to get heated sometimes. It shows people really care about important issues, connected with morality.

And if people don't want to contribute they are welcome to lurk to their heart's content.

In terms of the topic in discussion here, I find it hard to form a definite opinion, without more context from the rest of his speech. Maybe the Pontiff is experimenting with irony, as an alternative to pontificating?

Re: Post #8 ...

You say 'lurking' as if it's a bad thing. If you attend a town-hall debate, in an audience, listening, learning, hearing view-points, ... is that lurking? That is how I see many of these cyclic debates. I am an observer, trying to see if there is anything new to absorb. Sadly, over the nearly 4 years that I've been 'here', I haven't seen much new. The same folks on each side of the fence, ... a few sitting precariously on the pickets ... But not much new. Of course, when it devolves to the name-calling of twit, idiot, moron, and other names that several folks will recognize as their own used terms ... It all loses meaning at that point. I don't care what the aggravation in the real world, I will still treat a fool with dignity and respect, even if their views are beyond sense. Sadly, some of the sharper minds in these threads, your country-men and mine, devolve to name-calling. And devalue themselves in the process. There are some that I seriously ponder even reading their posts, knowing by name that they so easily become so petty.

Anyway, back to what-ever twist this "debate" may go ...

And purely as a aside ...

<>

What else might the Pontiff do but pontificate?

I haven´t read his speech and doesn´t have time to now. Judging from what he says about eternal life in your quote, it doesn´t seem to me he means the kind you get in heaven. I´d imagine he means things such as keeping people alive with all sorts of drugs and machines, instead of letting them die and experience the bliss of heaven.

Ah you got my pontiff joke then. Yes I hold my hand up, a bit lame.

What else might he do but pontificate?


Last year he abolished 'limbo'

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article659379.ece

But he might be really radical and say it's an okay and sensible thing to use condoms?

Anybody heard Tom Lehrer's the Vatican Rag
another secret lurker

I think the Pope isn't saying eternal life is a bad thing, merely philosophising about it. I also don't think he's saying atheism is "okay" (he's made it clear in the past that he thinks the way to salvation is through Jesus Christ and nothing else - standard Christian belief for 2000 years) more that it wasn't the "evil" or "immoral" thing that many Christians (including the Catholic Church, natch) have painted it as.

These are revisionist ideas but they aren't really that radical and they don't invert Christianity per-se in any way whatsoever.

Maybe they aren't radical to you, but to have the head of a religion say them *is* radical.

Well I guess I'd rather be thought of as part of a misguided reaction to injustice than as a tool of Satan's conspiracy on Earth.

I think?

Actually, scratch that, the second sounds a lot more fun.

I'd rather have $20 than a paper cut.