h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

10,000 foxhounds to be slaughtered to save a few hundred foxes a year...

The democratically mandated promise of government, but 69% say 'keep hunting'...

House of Commons broken into for the first time in 350 years. By Bryan Ferry's son, for goodness' sake!

Would you break the law for the right to do something you believe in?

Have you ever taken drugs, for example?

B

not in a country where I could campaign to change the law or vote against the party that enacted it at the next election, no

I don't think I should say anything about drugs on such a public place .

However, this 69% figure, I take it you didn't just pull it out of a kinky magazine?

Was the House of Commons not broken into for the purple condom throwing?

Who is Bryan Ferry?

Of course I'd break the law. I break the damned law for stuff I couldn't care less about. Half of this music isn't even any good.

A point of order.

No foxes at all are going to be saved by the passing of this legistlation. Quite the opposite in fact.

Instead of having one's fox population dispersed for free, and having your fallen stock taken away for nothing to boot. Landowners are now going to have to pay to have their fox problem dealt with.

And what is the quickest and cheapest way of doing that? Use the wholsale slaughter technique of gassing the little bleeders

>> Who is Bryan Ferry?

*hyperventilates*

GD - can you take me to one side, pass me a cigarette, and talk soothingly to me before I pass out?



B

Who *is* Bryan Ferry?

*passes Ben a cigarette*

Bryan Ferry:

- lead singer in the popular 70s beat-combo, "Roxy Music".
- the band was best known for having topless birds on their record covers.
- Brian Eno was the talented one in the group, but he left quite early on.
- Bryan turned into a bit of a 'lounge lizard' singer in the 80s, and the sound went badly downhill.

Z, you don't know who Bryan Ferry is either?

*hands start shaking, reaches for lighter*

I suddenly feel very very old.

B

But, but didn't Roxy Music get their one and only number one in the 80's? (83?)

Anway to answer the post 1...

Change the law, we can... Erm post 2 said that, but it was my answer before reading thread content.

Have I ever taken drugs? The answer is not illegal ones, the odd beer now and again, a sip of wine, a drop of Irish for a bad cold. I don't like this question, as the one question about extream of action for ideal was enough to ask, now I with I just had not bothered answering this part.

The law is a line in the sand

When many people cross that line, it becomes blurred

When the tide turns, the line disappears completely

I can't bring myself to care about foxes, sorry.... perhaps that makes me a bad person....

There is a place for civil disobedience even in democratic societies, but there are limits. It must be non-violent, proportional, and those who commit civil disobedience must take whatever punishment the law hands down. If those who defend fox hunting want to go for civil disobedience, the way to do it is to carry on hunting foxes openly and in defiance of the law, forcing the police to arrest the lot of them. Such actions would give them the publicity they want, and would not incovenience others. Could the police really be able to arrest everyone involved?

Stunts like storming the House of Commons, blocking major roads, throwing fireworks at police offers are disproportionate and completely unjustifiable. Democracy doesn't mean having whatever you want, but means being able to have your say and to campaign for what you want. Like it or not, the government has a manifesto commitment to abolish foxhunting. Those who don't like it should stick to peaceful protest and trying to win the argument - which, in fairness, the vast majority are.

But there will come a time for most people when their side loses the argument, and doesn't get what they want. Living in a democracy (and indeed in civil society) means accepting this. We can't have a functioning society where large numbers of people decide to embark on campaigns of disruption whenever they don't get what they want.

Breaking into the House of Commons was an absolutely disgraceful and totally irresponsible stunt and I hope that they throw the book at all those involved. It showed a total lack of respect for the UK's democratic institutions. It'll be interesting to see if those responsible are condemned in the same terms that would be used if, say, they had been anti-globalisation protesters. I rather think not....

The Scots have already banned hunting and are not arresting large numbers of pro-hunting supporters but fining the hunts which avoids creating 'martyrs' for the cause

The poor little blighter! He spends his whole life quietly until he reaches his adult years and then he suddenly charges out into the spotlight, achieving something in his own right for something he believes in, and still he's "Bryan Ferry's son". And then people don't say "who's Bryan Ferry's son?" they say "who's Bryan Ferry" and the shadow of his paternity crashes down upon him once again.


What's fox hunting? Is that like girl watching?



Actually, I agree with Otto.

We have foxes over here in Canada, too. And we're trying to protect them since they're pretty much Endangered. And it seems pretty strange to have dozens of horses, dogs and people "hunting" something which isn't going to be food for any of them.

I love foxhounds.

This is supposed to be a surprise?

What's the younger generation coming to?

Maybe I would; maybe I wouldn't. Depends on the circumstance. Sometines a little civil disobedience is a good thing.

=======~~~

All's well that ends well, I suppose.

I had issues with the smoke bombs and fireworks. That just struck me as stupid to be honest.

I like anything that scares MPs though. They scare the s**t out of me, so it is nice when the situation is reversed for a few moments.

B

Yeah like a hound has such a great life. They are not pet's. They may look cute, but they are nasty and once put down it's over with, an end to it.

Hmm... You may change "hound" for MP, student and it still read's.

Foxes don't need protecting, the countryside does however. Ban hunting with dog's, but not hunting.

BTW does avoiding the law count as breaking it. ie. "Poll Tax" - Community Charge avoid paying it, until a problem with that present's itself, or not.

>> Ban hunting with dog's, but not hunting.



Jab - you always confuse me, and you are doing it again. The points you make are often interesting though.

B

So no dogs then. OK, back to lamping it is. But that ain't nearly as much fun as bombing around the countryside in persuit of one's quarry.

'ban hunting with dogs'

does that mean that the people and horses could still tear around after the foxes? Who would do all the howling? Perhaps poor old Bryan Ferry's son (the poor old son of Bryan Ferry?) could get the job. Perhaps the rest of the lot that ran through the House of Commons could form a pack (perhaps with Brian Eno's son). Or perhaps they could be separated and each one could be pursued by a seargant-at-arms, a pack of hounds, and thirty mounted hunters. Maybe it should just be done weekly in the House of Commons and there would be less wear and tear on the fences and hedgerows of the countryside.

But seriously. If ' fox hunting is inhumane and breaches European standards for the treatment of animals' http://edition.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/europe/09/15/fox.protest/index.html


then how do the Spanish get away with bull fighting? Or are they working on legislation that would ban the use of capes and swords in the bull ring?