h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7038095.stm

"President George W Bush has urged US legislators not to pass a resolution declaring the killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks to be genocide."

WTF? Have the three monkeys taken residence? It's bad enough that the Turks deny it but for the USA to turn a blind eye is disgusting.

If Holocaust denial can be a crime in Europe, so should denying the Armenian genocide be. How can we even contemplate allowing such a country into the EU until it admits it's own actions?

The UK has not intention of recognising it as a genocide either, also for political convenience.

I expect France and Austria would be happy to see recognision of the genocide as condition of entry to the EU purely because they don't each for different reason want to see Turkey become a member.

It's illegal in Turkey to suggest it was anything of the kind.

To let Turkey in and to have Iraq, Iran and Syria on Europe's has to be a questionable strategic move.

I had no idea we hadn't recognised it either. FFS.

The US House actually defied Bush!

http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2007/10/10/armenia-genocide.html

Good for them. Now what are we going to do about the British stance on it??

This isn't the end of the stroy in the US. It remains to see how further it will go.
If it does become something more meaningful in the US, then that may lead to a renewed pressure for the UK to use stronger terms i.e. "genocide" and "crimes against humanity".

I wonder how the US regards it's own 'genocidal' efforts to eliminate the indigenous Red Indian population ?

Novo

An intrinsic part of their foundation myth?

If we're going to start insisting on everyone being honest about genocide/ethnic cleansing there are a lot of history books that will have to be re-written.

I hate that phrase. History books are constantly re-written as new views are aired, new evidence comes to light, and suchlike. There's not one big monolithic textbook with "HISTORY" emblazoned on the front.

Some things tend not to appear in school textbooks or popular histories even when they are accepted by the academic community though.

On the one hand, one is forced to wonder why it's an issue for the Turks. It's like, 90 years ago. Nobody who took part is alive, much less in public life or positions of influence. So why not just go "Wow, yeah, it was a genocide, it was terrible, gee folks we're sorry, let's move on.". Worked for the Germans.

On the other, there are laws in Turkey which prevent free speech and criminalise criticism of the country. On that basis, who gives a monkey's what a backward, repressive nation of barbarians calls an historical event?

Oh, that's right - the people who want to be able to use their territory as a base to observe and attack other countries in that region. Silly me.

Turkey in the EU? Never gonna happen.

SoRB

"Some things tend not to appear in school textbooks or popular histories even when they are accepted by the academic community though."

Well school textbooks aren't much more than a list of events with a tiny bit of commentary. And in my experience, changes in the mindset of the academic community tend to be brought about by popular histories. Ian Kershaw anyone?

I would hazard a guess that the Turks are concerned that if a charge of genocide is proven then a raft of compensation suits will begin to flow.

I just did read in my national newspaper, that - despite anger of Bush- the "troubles" in Turkey are being described as "genocide".

That's a very good thing !!
One cannot deny systematic killings with 1 1/2 mill. dead bodies for political reasons.

That whole Turkish elite (militairy/political) is very short tempered. (as I am, but i'm not a politician and don't not seek for it).

Greetings from sunny Amsterdam.

If Turkey ever will be permitted the European Union, it has to admit fully the genocide, without fussy formulations.

Novo, in the US, using our big book with "HISTORY" emblazoned on the front, they teach about the Trail of Tears.

A9633260

Whose tears , Arnie ?

Novo

"President George W Bush has urged US legislators not to pass a resolution declaring the killing of Armenians by Ottoman Turks to be genocide."

Good one. And none of us thinks that GWB is a total idiot?

Of course it was genocide - it was all about killing *all* Armenians.

Duh?


az

If you just move your mouse and click, you'll find the answer to that question.

You'll find that most recent histories about the westward expansion of the USA are sympathetic towards the natives and don't hesitate to criticise the settlers. That period is an intrinsic part of the USA's "founding myth" and as such can't be brushed under a carpet - there has to be academic debate about it sooner or later. Same as with Britain, the actions of the Raj and the British actions in South Africa are key to the "founding myths" of those nations (in their modern form at least) so there's been a need for discussion and debate.

With the Turks it's different. The Armenian genocide has no great historical or cultural significance, so as far as they can, they just ignore them. It's part of why the Germans are so repentant over the Holocaust - that period is fundemental to understanding the partition and unification - and also why the Japanese don't teach their kids about their atrocities in WW2 - it's of no great historical significance to their modern culture.

Wow, that rambled a bit...

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Is this a fact, Psycorp? How do you know this?

az