h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>You also have to look at the reasons why the soldier decided to go into the military in the first place. For many it's a way to get out of the ghetto or out of poverty. For others it's a way to (at least in America) to get a free education and all kinds of benefits they wouldn't have otherwise easily come by such as health cover. If what you have to go back to is something you desperately wanted to get away from, you're not lightly going to put your army career in jeopardy. <<

Thanks Gosho, that helped me understand much better what people are doing in the army in the first place. I think there is a strong 'masculine' (not sure if that is the right word) ethic that is attractive as well. It's a very distinct subculture.

The armed forces in the US are all volunteer. Many of the soldiers in Iraq are National Guard. They are part-time soldiers that typically train on week-ends with a longer stint once or twice a year. They can be activated at any time, which is what has happened. The US no longer maintains large full-time forces.

Any idea of the split between full time and part time soldiers?
And what effect might this have given that the opposing forces are made up of fanatics who feel they have nothing to lose and everyuthing to gain by fighting as hard as they can?

Good questions. I don't the answers.

Refreshing honesty there

Of course, not having the answer usually opens the doors for half baked ideas and crack pot theories, you start admitting you don;t know something and the thread won't go very far will it?

I've been known to kill a thread off once or twice.

I'm sure the answers are out there on the web somewhere, but who wants to try to separate the crack pots from the propaganda?

I'd have to say its the leaders all the way.

They sanction carpet bombing, they order the aeroplanes that the carry the bombs. Our leaders encourage young people to join up learn a trade, see the world and defend freedom. The cold harsh reality is that they entice then brow beat semi-willing people into fully compliant killers.

I've got friends in the forces and family who have served in combat all they do is get pisssed because they cant adjust to normal life easily. Maybe the drinking whist in the forces is just as much a social thing but I also think its an emotional necessity to deal with what they have become and it just carries on after.

one love

Somebody wondered about the israelian soldiers who refused to fight on palestinian soil. Here is a link to one of their organisations http://www.seruv.org.il/english/default.asp

From a swedish point of veiw these questions are interesting and hard to understand. I would never ever want to be regarded a patriot. Patriotism is some thing uggly to me. Why should I feel the need of "supporting the troops" in a war that I think is wrong? Every soldier there made some kind of choice, some kind of decision that took him there. In my opinion he/she made the wrong choice. And in a democratic society why wouldn´t I be allowed to express that opinion and still be respected for it?!


Izzybelle

We get dramas on TV about soldiers and war. There are even nursery rhymes about soldiers and sailors. War ships are docked in our capital city and turned into museums. War is glorified. There are air displays with bombers and fighter planes. Blokes on big horses with funny hats and fancy uniforms parading all over the shop.

In this climate people are encouraged to think of joining the forces as a positive thing. Maybe the Ministry of Defence ought to be sued for false advertising?

Let's not forget that, Vietnam, the Falklands, and Gulf War 1 aside, a lot of people in the American and UK militaries will have joined up with little or no thought of actually having to fight or go on active service. 'Join the Navy, see the world'. That's about the height of it, right? But actually going to war... surely not

I used to know a bloke who was in the Territorial Army - the UK army reserve. It was just a big adventure to him. He'd go off for the weekend once a month and play war games, but he never considered the possibility that he'd actually be called up for active service.

We haven't had a major war for so long that people don't expect thre to be fighting any more. They domn't expect their loved ones to have to go off and kill other people, nor to be killed. I've heard a couple of news stories this week about three sisters from Wisconsin who were all in the army and who were all sent to Iraq. Before (or perhaps just after) they left, their mother was shown saying how proud she was of them.

One of them is now dead and her mother wants the other two transferred from active duty. People may get all gung-ho, idealistic, and misty eyed about the 'glory of war' and of fighting for what you believe in, but they can't deal with the reality of it when it hits them personally and loved ones start coming home in body bags.

Another point is that the leaders are relying on this "I support the troops but not the leaders" idea to continue the war. This was made perfectly clear in the early stages when the various polls indicated somewhat less than 100% support for the war amoungst the populace. It has been shown several times that once you actually start combat, a large number of people switch to supporting it because they are 'our boys and we must support them'. Kinda cynical I feel, knowing you are not doing what people want but knowing that other factors will get at least some extra on your side once you start.

I distinctly remember a the Army's stall at our school's careers fair. It was an event where there were stalls from local empolyers and futher education colleges - we were all 14 or 15, as our school didn't have a sixth form we all had to decide where to go when we were 15.

The Army had been there all day, but at one point as there were quite a few people gathered around the recuriting sergent stood up and gave a talk at one point.

His first words said 'You don't need any quailifcations to become a solider, but the pay is 'X a week, and that's with free accomodation so you can spend it all.

That was considerably more than anyone of us could hope to earn at the age of 16 even if we did have some GSCEs, so instantly a large crowd gathered round him.

He spent a good fifteen minutes talking about the benifits of the Army. There were lots of oppertunities he said, you could become a mechanic, or a driver, or a chef, all the training was provided.

It was a revalation to some people. They'd spent all their time at school being told that they were useless because they weren't very academic - and here was someone who wanted to recruit them. And they'd get good training as well, in things that they were intrested in.

I've no doubt that some of those who did joint up benifited considerably, they probably wouldn't have done well academically, but it gave them a chance to get a trade and a purpose in life.

For some of them that was worth the risk of being killed. When I pointed out that 'but you could get killed' to one friend who joined up, he said 'but there won't be a war'.

That's quite true. I did a lot of hitching around the UK in my late teenage years, and the majority of lorry drivers who picked me up told me that they'd got their HGV licence in the army. Paying for a course to get an HGV 1 has never been particularly cheap.

The possibilty of active service always exists though. I have a cousin who did his national service, was called up, and was injured in Aden in the early 60s. If you're in the military, you can be put in front of bullets and shells.

I've just looked on the Royal Navy recruitment website, and the minimum age to apply is 15 years and 9 months.

I was looking at the list of jobs that you can apply if you're 15 and 9 months, that you don't need qualifications for - it includes a chef on a submarine. I know what I'd have thought when I was that age - "how Cool you get to work on a submarine! that would be great fun!'

As far as I know if you want to leave you have to buy yourself out, I know that in the past, before they had gay people in the forces and were allowed to then people use to pretend to be gay to get out if they really disliked it.

Yes. I support the troops.

The British Army has had years of experience in running the sort of re-building and social harmonizing role that is required in Iraq. They also have a reputation for hard fighting which discourages the casual trouble-maker. They are probably the best placed group of people for the job that is required in Iraq.

However they should be wearing blue helmets to do the job.