h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

You say tomato.....

WRENs have been a fact of life for a while now, I reckon those tensions have always existed, and saying WRENs is just the excuse. With no proof either way this just goes to demonstrate the rather limited usefullness of opinions without any ability to back them up with evidence....

Similarly, yours is just an opinion with no personal experience to base it upon.

If you wanted to know what goes on in a widget factory, do you ask someone who works in a widget factory or someone who knows someone who works in a widget factory?

Lesson 101 in Extropolating personal experience to the wider situation.


Thank you for the demonstration SWL.....

Your welcome. When was the last time you saw your nose?

I presume to nose thing is a dig, but I dont get the reference. Must be a turn of phrase I am unfamiliar with.

Come on man, use your common sense.

Put a lot of fit, healthy young women in a box with a similar bunch of men then shut them off from the world for six months.

What do you *think* is going to happen?

Digging deeper, despite your second-hand protestations, this is causing problems and is highly likely to be a contributary factor in Naval divorces. Why would the RN be the only Service that doesn't keep count of divorces amongst personnel?

The decision to send women to sea wasn't a military one - we aren't so short-handed in the Navy yet. Most of our ships are tied up alongside. It was a political decision.

Hey! Take it to the other thread!

No time for anything else now...

az - only during the day!

I know navel personell, pals of mine, who have had marriages and and long term relationships break down.

In all of these it was a combination of of the partners not believing that they could keep their dicks in their trousers and the pressures of being apart for long periods of time. I dont think any of these relationships would have really survived even if there were no WRENs on board.

The truth is are these marriages ending becuase of WRENs or because navy wives dont trust their partners and it is now easier and more socially acceptable to divorce? How many navy divorces would have been averted because of WRENs not being aboard? How many sailors who are unfaithful with WRENs would actually keep their johnsons in their trousers when in other ports?

I dont know the answers, and in truth neither do you SWL.

<> (Sho)

In your absence, Sho, I think SWL and FB have given us all a shining example of one reason people get fed up with this place.

Dragging a personal argument from one thread over to another is always tedious - dragging one over to a thread that was started specifically as a means to look for solutions for friendlier debating . . . the mind reels.


az

Sorry I am obviously psoiling hootoo then....

Mea Culpa.

Sorry

I think Sho has completely and utterly lied about my posts. It was nothing at all like "they don't just chuck a pile of old Lancets in front of me with post-it notes on relevant articles".
I never did anything like that.

I had 2 posts with links. Only 2 on the entire thread. All were prefaced by sentences or paragraphs, summarizing their content *AND* explaining relationship to my arguments.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to state that "to post links and back his arguments up. Which is great if we're discussing something quantifiable and provable. But that's not debate."

How is that not debate? How many times do I have to ask, what is wrong with providing evidence - whatever evidence is available? What is your definition of debate?

simulpost with Az.

"In your absence, Sho, I think SWL and FB have given us all a shining example of one reason people get fed up with this place."


I think Sho's blatant lying is also a "shining example" of why people get sick of hootoo. I remember in the distant past there was someone who behaved in a similar vein ...

<> (Sho)

Sho said in her post 29 that she was exaggerating. It also sounded like she was posting in a hurry as she was heading out the door.

I think there is quite a difference between blatant lying and exaggeration, and I think you know this too Arnie.


az

And Sho repeatedly said that the other thread was not a good example of the thing she was referring to.

Yep, this thread is a good example of why I don't 'debate' here any more.

Absolutely, Az, I do know the difference, which is why I *very* carefully chose the word "lying". It goes beyond exaggeration. I would provide a link to my posts, but we know how just *AWFUL* that would be. It would just ruing the thread, don't ya know?


Kelli, she can say that here all she wants - but if her last post on the other thread was "I'm leaving b/c this is just link ping-pong" it flatly contradicts that assertion, doesn't it?

<>

Was that a typo, Arnie?

az

I know I don't really post much here, which may be because I don't know much about quite a lot of the things discussed, but I do enjoy lurking and reading some intelligent debate. Mainly because some days it's good to look at a thread on hootoo and think "Wow. I learned something today" or just "I've never thought about things that way before".

In the past few days, all I've seen on here are bickering over links, arguments over what constitutes proof (from my perspective, how anyone can hold up a w*k* link and say that's more authorative than personal experience is completely amazing) and general personal nastiness. To be honest, it's quite depressing. As someone who spends time lurking on a few message boards populated by angry teenagers making death threats to anyone who doesn't like a certain computer game, I thought h2g2 was a world apart from that, but I'm beginning to revise that opinion.

What's wrong with putting your point accross, accepting that it's just your view backed up by evidence you've seen, and that it may be no more or less valid than anyone elses view and then agreeing to disagree?

I thought the Forum was a place for intelligent debate for intelligent debate's sake, not a place for points scoring and personal attacks.

Whoa! The night shift was busy!

Going waaay back to when I was last here, yes I do believe that arguments must first stand alone. If they are challenged then some reason must be given as to why they are a personally held belief and if they are scientifically or physically based then they should have some form of *proof* (which is often difficult if they are a theorem).
I would hasten to add that to paraphrase Mark Twain there are four kinds of lies in ascending order: lies, damn lies, statistics and internet links. There are many more links that are factual than are not but many are opinion and/or outright fantasy. Linking to someone who agrees with you proves little, just as a link to the Flat Earth Society (to use the extreme version) only increases my list of loons.

Nothing is *proved* beyond a shadow of a doubt here and in addition those who want to prove themselves or their agenda rather than their argument are not entertaining IMO.

"from my perspective, how anyone can hold up a w*k* link and say that's more authorative than personal experience is completely amazing"

I'm not sure anyone has actually said that.

If the debate is over the colour of any given researcher's front door, I'd accept her account of what colour her door is over a link to a website that said that her door was a different colour.

But if the debate is about (say) whether crime has gone up or down, I'd take a link to the British Crime Survey over someone posting saying something like "well, in the experience my friends and family, it has gone up, therefore it has gone up."

Horses for courses, surely?