h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

>>"Potholer - you missed the point/joke. Gambling is haram"

a) I wasn't replying to you. I thought that was fairly apparent.

b) When I did read your post (later), I appreciated the irony, such as it was, but it hardly seemed worth writing a specific reply to.

Can anyone tell me why so many hootoo threads just get sarcastic or abusive? There is a perfectly good 'Sarcastic Only' thread where sarcasm is totally absent.

>>"But if the quid pro quo is being able to insist on equality for women and blocking Wahhabi influence, is it a price worth paying?"

So do you want to single mosques out for funding, in order to change how the people think there?

What do you do - insist on having 50% women on the controlling bodies?
What happens if/when a mosque backslides? Do you take them over? Demand your money back?

Would you do the same for all other religions that make 'religious' distinctions between gender roles?

My cynical side would suggest that the less moderate groupings would still take Saudi money, and anyone moderate with a brain would go to the government and say "We want to build a mosque, and the Saudis have offered us XXXX. Can you beat that?"

>>"Can anyone tell me why so many hootoo threads just get sarcastic or abusive?"

Hey - *you're* the one who accused *me* of being dense or ignorant.

I didn't think your joke/irony was aimed specifically at me, nor that it demanded a specific reply. In fact, I did briefly think about it, then reckoned a reply would rather have killed it for anyone else.

If I offended you:
a) by being busy writing a reply to someone else when you posted
b) for not immediately praising your wit
c) for explaining the above when challenged
then I apologise.

Personally, if *I* think I've made a subtle joke, I'd rather just leave it for others to appreciate or not in their own way, rather than picking on someone to criticise (without evidence) for not getting it.
However, maybe that's just me.

Sure, in a thread it's possible for someone to think a reply is aimed at the previous post, rather than the post it's relying to.
That's why I tend to include comments to limit potential misunderstanding.

"Hey - *you're* the one who accused *me* of being dense or ignorant."
Which post?

>>""Hey - *you're* the one who accused *me* of being dense or ignorant."
Which post?"

When you said I didn't get the joke you had made, implying I lacked knowledge or the ability to apply it and/or a sense of humour.

If you're going to read sarcasm into simple honest posts, maybe you should be more careful what you write. Do you think there was any way I could have honestly replied to you that you *couldn't* have taken as being sarcastic, given the facts?

More generally, I think drawing attention to or explaining a comment one has just made isn't usually going to make other people think it's funnier.

Very profound and apologies. There is the 'Sarcasm Only Thread' which has a marked lack of sarcasm - perhaps you should contribute there.

>>"There is the 'Sarcasm Only Thread' which has a marked lack of sarcasm - perhaps you should contribute there."

Why?

I give up!

I mean, why *would* I want to frequent a sarcasm thread that you say isn't doing what it says it should be (though you also described it as 'perfectly good')?
That would seem a bit of a waste of time to me.

Pedantic: "I have been accused of a lot of things but never 'blatant anti semitic'." Well, now in addition to that, I'm going to accuse you blatantly lying. Have you forgotten this thread? http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/F135418?thread=3754091&skip=120&show=20 It starts at post 118, and proceeds onward. At various points you explain how Jews control all the money, financed the crusades, etc. The Zionist banking conspiracy - which you apparently advocate. Of course, this is the the sort of thing that SWL loves to pieces.

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I'm sure you're going to back that up.

So far, I've provided links to Muslim sources on the topic that have been roundly ignored.

What have you contributed?

Well, I've shown that PedanticBarSteward has 0 credibility. That's usually considered invaluable information.

Well, Arnie, I feel obliged to ask, do you ever contribute anything positive to any debate? You're not bad on the science stuff in SEx, but elsewhere you seem merely to positively revel in attacking people.

TRiG.

You've shown nothing Arnie, which seems to be par for the course. PBS posted information about Muslim women & Mosques. Coming from an Englishman who married a Muslim and converted to Islam, who has lived for decades in Arab countries, who has designed & built Mosques, I think he could have contributed to the discussion.

But, you had to dive in throwing cheap shots around. The discussion was just starting to develop, with Otto posting an interesting legal point but you've just disrupted it entirely. You've contributed SFA, other than giving yourself a warm, smug feeling. Next time, just relieve yourself in your pants. You'll get the same feeling and the grown-ups won't be disturbed.

Incidentally, I wouldn't get hung up on Arab conspiracy theories. It's an inherent part of the culture and comes as easily as breathing to them. Just as the British whine on constantly about the weather, Arabs swap conspiracy theories.

Well TRiG, I see TONS of bad economics on these forums. That usually turns into name calling. Name calling isn't a contribution, but apparently you consider it also a waste to try to correct people's thinking about economics?

What have you contributed TRiG?

So, SWL, you don't consider it valuable to know that PedanticBarSteward actively promotes the Zionist Banking Conspiracy? That fits, actually.

>>The Jews have long history of being persecuted, the Egyptians, Romans, Turks and just about everyone else. Were they actually persecuted? They kept themselves to themselves – like a secret society, and leached off wherever they lived. Certainly clever, certainly skilled (look at the number of Nobel prizes), but not information to be shared.
With money they controlled – and once you have control of the money, you can manipulate the politics. Since 1948 and the imbecility of France, UK and the Untied States, they have manipulated everything from the Suez Cris, Vietnam, Iran vs Iraq and then two cracks at Iraq.
But - there is the other side – who actually makes money out of AK47s? Strange – play both ends against the middle and you cannot go wrong.<< PBS on the antisemitism/antimuslim thread as quoted by Arnie on post 51 here

He wrote this kind of obnoxious nonsense on the thread Arnie quoted which is basically anti zionist conspiracy crap of the highest order. After reading shit like this from someone I find it impossible to take anything he says seriously.

PBS says on this thread, post 29 >>I have been accused of a lot of things but never 'blatant anti semitic'<<

If PBS came clean and admitted he's said a lot of anti semitic stuff and apologised, people still might find it hard to take him seriously, but there might be the beginnings of moving on. But for PBS to deny it just makes hinself a laughing stock. We all post things we might regret for all sorts of reasons, but to pretend otherwise just doesn't wash.

I for one have very little interest in PBS's views on anything connected with muslims/jews/the middle east after reading all his weirdo conspiracy stuff. There is absolutely no excuse for an intelligent person to promote such stuff.

Wake up call for Arnie & Fanny - go ask virtually any Arab if there is a Zionist conspiracy. The belief that it exists is ingrained within Arabs and, by extension, many Muslims.

How in the name of the wee man can either of you hope to contribute to any discussion about Muslims when you quite clearly demonstrate such breathtaking ignorance of the culture?

That's been the problem with most debates here on H2G2 about Islam. There is a tendency to put the words & writings of Muslims into a Western context. It's the exact same approach that has led the US & UK into a quagmire in Iraq.

Tell a child from the age of consciousness that Jews are pigs and Christians are apes and it tends to stick. And that is exactly what was found in the textbooks of a Muslim school in Britain last week.

Until people like Arnie & Fanny can appreciate that other cultures can have a *totally* different mindset, they would be well-advised to listen more than they shoot their mouths off. You've got two ears and one mouth for a reason.

>>"Tell a child from the age of consciousness that Jews are pigs and Christians are apes and it tends to stick. And that is exactly what was found in the textbooks of a Muslim school in Britain last week."

That's one school, then. What about the rest? For all I know, there may be many others with similar books or not. Still, I'd be more bothered about what was being *taught* than what was in one book. hatred can be taught without textbooks, and it's also possible to read hate texts to illustrate what some people think even if you know it's rubbish.
After all, it's not only possible but actually extremely likely that someone can read the Bible without developing a taste for rape, genocide, slavery and foreskin collection,

Sure, all kinds of people are brought up to think the 'other' is inferior, even subhuman. (You should read the bit in "The God Delusion" regarding Israeli primary school children and their opinion on the Old Testament).
However, many other people aren't.

I wonder, how many anti-Jewish attacks in the UK are from Muslims, and how many are from non-Muslims?

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http://www.textbookleague.org/121musm.htm
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/cm200304/cmselect/cmfaff/81/3120221.htm
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/19/AR2006051901769_pf.html

Remember when the debate was raging about faith schools? Remember the Muslim Leaders trying to get exemption from state inspections of Muslim schools, or at the very least that such inspections be carried out by Muslims?

IMO, this is where multiculturalism falls down. It's a nice ethos that all cultures can get along side by side, but it doesn't fit with the reality we see in the world.

Again IMO, the secret is education. Control the education, teach kids together that we are all of equal value and, within a generation or two, the bulk of such hatred and misunderstandings will dissipate.