h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

"Point 2 was tongue in cheek"

Mine wasn't - 4x4s kill pedestrians other vehicles would leave alive.

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"a 4x4 is less likely to skid in wet or icy conditions. Being larger cars, they have larger tyres which means more rubber is in contact with the road."

If tyre size were the only variable I'd agree - but surely Centre of Gravity, vehicle weight and suspension stiffness all play a part.

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"if you get side swiped by a normal car, the other guy is lower down than you and further away at the point of impact. Would you rather be in the middle of a big tin box or at the edge of a small tin box?"

In that particular type of incident, I probably would prefer being higher up... Having said that, have a glance at this, it might surprise you - 4x4s _aren't_ any safer when subjected to a whole range of tests.

http://www.driving.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,13311,00.html

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Prius (Hybrid), 1500cc. Average 46 MPG.
Avensis (Diesel) 2200cc, average 45 MPG.

Hybrid v Diesel - engine size hardly comes into it I'd have thought - it's a bit like comparing a car against a horse

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Thanks for the accident stats, maybe they should be more widely publicised to take away this false feeling of safety.

The point in comparing the Prius & Avensis was to illustrate that engine size isn't everything. I'd rather have a large engine with low gearing than a wee car that has to run at high revs just to keep up.

When I learnt to drive, I was taught 'mirror, signal, manouvre'. I don't know what learners are taught these days, but I certainly see a lot a poor driving where the driver seems utterly indifferent to other road users.

Driving defensively should not mean that others are allowed to drive badly. Unfortunately we just do not have the resources to enforce appropriate driving standards.
I've also noticed that when poor drivers cause accidents, often they emerge relatively unscathed and it is the innocent victims who suffer most.

Did anyone hear the impact statement read out on radio 4 by the mother of a woman killed in such an accident?

Mirror, signal, manoeuvre.

Exactly, but it should be Mirror, signal *and if it's safe to do so* manouevre.

Too many people seem to think indicating gives them the right to manoeuvre.

Thank you Whisky for your point by point response to Mr or Ms SUV. After I read the post from the five SUV owning conspicuous consumer, I went on line to read about SUV safety.

This is what I learned:

SUVs are more likely to roll over because of their high center of gravity. SUVs are modified trucks rather than passenger vehicles and have less safety devices becuase of that. SUV drivers have a false sense of security and are less likely to use seatbelts becuase of it and therefore when they do roll over the occupants are more likely to be injured. SUVs are more likely to kill OTHER people in OTHER vehicles because their bumpers are so high in relation to the other vehicles. SUVs are gas guzzling behemoths. The vast majority of them get in the range of 14 to 16 miles per gallon. My saloon car (a 4door Oldsmobile Intrigue gets 25-30 miles per gallon.

SUVs - my favourite topic

This is applicable to "crossover" urban car-based SUVs only - enough has already been said about the safety and efficiency of the traditional truck-based types.

Firstly, having four driven wheels does not contribute anything towards safety unless you're already driving close to the limit or happen to be a rally driver. All it does is increase traction in the forward direction. It doesn't help you stop - all cars have four brakes, most now have ABS, and many have stability control.

You can't really distinguish between SUVs and cars for tyre grip alone - in either case the tyres are normally straight road tyres and will be sized to cope with the weight of the vehicle. Large, heavy SUVs therefore have large, wide tyres to cope with their weight on the road. This actually makes them sod-all use for slippy surfaces, where you need nobbly, narrow tyres. The manufacturers know this - there are reviews on BMW's own website that state how their X3/X5 range is unsuitable for off-road use, and the Mercedes M class needs an optional "off road pack" to go off-roading. But they know full well that no-one ever goes off-roading in them anyway, despite what the ads say.

Secondly, a true 4x4 requires locking or torsen differentials to control torque to each wheel. These are large, heavy, sap engine power and increase fuel consumption. For this reason many modern SUVs don't have proper four wheel drive at all - they have three normal free-spinning differentials and control the torque to each wheel using the ABS. Yes, really, the extra traction is achieved by *applying the brakes* and selectively *reducing* power. This might seem highly inefficient (it is), but again the manufacturers know full well that it'll never actually be needed, and that most people just care about the "4x4" badge on the back.

It is also pretty much the same effect as you get from a 2WD car with stability control. Except that an otherwise-indentical 2WD car would corner and stop quicker as it doesn't have to drag round the weight of two redundant differentials, propshaft, driveshafts etc etc.

Thirdly - crash safety. All other things being equal, you are more likely to survive a collision in an SUV merely because it is heavier - acceleration = force / mass, so the smaller car will receive an unfairly high proportion of the impact acceleration.

The SUV driver is protecting himself at the expense of the guy he crashes into. You can form your own opinions about the morality and inevitable consequences of this. However, crashes are rarely equal as the statistics show.

Fourthly - high driving position. Indeed it does allow you to see further ahead over the top of traffic in front. The other way of seeing more road of course is to pull back from the car in front.

Allegedly, in the US, an SUV driver reverses over and kills their own child *once a week* because the rear window is so high. Personally, I cringe every single morning walking my own kid to school at the mothers trying to manoeuvre their monstrosities through crowds of of small children they can't see

In addition to all that, if you stand next to a commute road and watch for a while, what you will likely see is approximately 95 percent of the vehicles containing ONE occupant. This in spite of all the encouragement of carpooling. I used to ride my bike to work in the Bay Area (San Francisco Bay) and as I was riding in the bike lane next to the freeway, which was generally at a standstill, I would look over into all those cars with single occupants and wonder. . . So I really do not understand the mentality that feels that they need a huge SUV to get from point A to point B with one person in it.

Around here where I live (a fairly rural farming community), the trend is now towards bigger and bigger trucks. I keep seeing 1 ton dual wheeled crew cab pickups driving around with one occupant. The most egregious waste of all is the Hummer with one person in it.

A pox on all of 'em

Perhaps the taxation authoritie, State or Federal should raise the Fuel Tax to the punitive levels in the UK?

It wouldn't solve the problem , we still have too many of the unecessarily large vehicle in our towns, but at pretty well £4 per Imperial Gallon a similar price might take some of yours literally "Off the Road"

Novo

My position has been for some time that fuel prices in the US are far too low. Everybody is whining and complaining about how "high" they are but they have never reached the levels that are extant in Europe. Perhaps if they would go up there and stay there this country would find a way to get out of the POV (military term = Personally Owned Vehicle) and start supporting transit, light rail, jitneys, buses, bikes, walking, etc. This also might address the obesity epidemic here as well.

Novo,

That is in effect what is happening. When gas/petrol hit $3 a gallon (a US gallon is larger than a UK gallon too) people freaked out. SUV sales are plummeting, there are huge waiting lists for new hybrids. I know someone who bought a second-hand VW jetta just for commuting because it would save him money.

However, I read in Time this week that the average US gas price is now $2.13 - Hummer sales are up 16%.

Ste

GM, Ford, etc. are dying under the weight of their current unsold SUVs.

What's interesting is that in real terms (ie. adjusted for inflation), the price of gas has never reached the levels it reached during the oil embargo.

But I agree absolutely that gas should be taxed more heavily. I don't think a drastic sudden increase would work, but we should definitely have planned, phased in tax increases.

Traveller in Time on his head
"They should rate vehicle tax on engine power used road surface and volume.

Did some hours on the road today, no significant non signalling statistics. "

<>Arnie A.

Arnie, I was thinking about this post as I was running to the post office today, and cogitating about my experiences as a bike rider and my son's as well. It is positively appalling and amazing how many drivers do not know that legally bikes are considered vehicles and have every bit as much right to be on the road as their cars, and are expected to obey the same laws as they do (or do not as the case may be) Lack of education, for sure.

I recall that during my sojourn in San Francisco it made the front page news when a bicyclist was actually pulled over and ticketed for speeding on a residential street.

"a bicyclist was actually pulled over and ticketed for speeding"

One of my ambitions, though I admit that my brother is far more likely to achieve it.

TRiG.

Do bear in mind that San Francisco is a city with many very impressive hills that probably helped him out some. And the speed limit in residential neighborhoods is only 25mph

I'm sure on those hills in San Francisco it's be hard to do the speed limit on a bike!

Well, depends which way you are going, dunt it?

I also really enjoy those fantastic speed bumps which don't quite meet the kerb, which means that a bike can slip through without slowing down.

TRiG.

Plus a bike can travel all the way to the red light past the line of car congestion between them and the curb. Very nice.

and when turning left, ride through the red light and 'merge' with the traffic.

Novo