h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

Right.. hum a bit difficult to discuss this one on a moderated website.

I was chatting to someone on the internet on a different site I shuold say who had a fetish for being catherised. A quick google (followed by drastic clearing of the history file) reveled that this medical fetish is not unusal. In fact someone has asked to borrowed my stethoscope to use in the bedroom. If our sexual desires are created from evolution, how do fetishes arise?

I've read that many of them seem to be from essentially random chance associations, that nevertheless get very firmly imprinted in the mind. Apparently, the things (images, sensory sensations) your mind associates with you earlier sexual arousals can be especially potent. I've also seen that fetishes can be things your mind associates with early memories of feeling intensely loved.

Say with the catheter thing you mentioned. It's entirely possible that while in the hospital, someone could become incidentally aroused by the physical stimulation of inserting a catheter. It's also possible that someone could associate the hospitalization as a time of feeling intensely loved by a mother. If that association is somehow reinforced down the road, the association will strengthen. The memory of the incident that precipitated the fetish itself isn't necessarily the person would strongly retain, however.

Of course, this could just be a load of bologna -- it seems to be based more on psychoanalytic theory than anything else. How you could actually do a decent study on the question in real life is really quite beyond me.

I suppose you could do a case control study. Take a sample of people who are into it, and another sample of people who are not. See if the people who were into medical fetishes were more likely to have recieved medical treatment as a child....

When I was doing psychiatry I read a lot about this, but I couldn't find any actual science, just psychoanlytical theory.

That sounds like I study I could do, just one problem, how on earth would I explain it to the ethics comittee.

Actually, you'd be surprised what you can convince an ethics committee (known as IRB's here) -- the main thing they worry about is that the study won't in any way (physically, emotionally, etc.) pose risks to the subject unless the subject stands to gain substantial benefit from the study.

A study like this, the subject is unlikely to benefit from -- but the level of risk is also incredibly low. The main risk that IRB's worry about in a study like that is the risk of being made feel uncomfortable by the questions in the interview or questionnaire -- but there are all sorts of standardized ways of minimizing the risks of discomfort (using AudioCasi, allowing subjects to skip questions, etc.), and those things make the IRBs feel much happier about a study.

*plots* I have to think of a study to carry out for a project at the end of next year as well, we can do it anywhere in the world and I had arranged to go to the Outer Hebrides, some islands off scotland.

But this sounds more fun. Though I'm still not sure if I could be actaully stand up and present it in frount of hundreds of people without blushing. Not to mention I'd be known for ever as the guy who did a project on fetishs.

I thought a fetish was something that you didn't so much consider a 'turn on' as more an 'essential'. So if someone is turned on by having something inserted up their waterpipe then that's one thing, but if that is the only way they can be aroused then there is a serious problem. It is often seen as a sign of deeper mental disorder. I believe Hitler was impotent, but before he became the big cheese he was very friendly with his cousin. When he made it to the big time she suspiciously committed suicide. Apparantly, despite his impotence, Adolf enjoyed receiving a golden shower. Surprising? I'm not so sure, maybe deep down he had a strong inferiority complex which he fed this way?

Carefull - its not necassarily a sign of a deeper mental disoder - there are a lot of otherwise normal people who feel that way.

I think the study should be fine - though it has all of the problems of a correlation study (proving causality etc) still I'd be interested.

Also dont forget conditioning theory - if a persons experienes of 'normal' sexuality are not rewarded, but their alternative versions are the natural insticts could be extinguished leading to the effect that we observe

One of the problems facing this would be a definition of 'normal'. As we have seen, there have been lots of incidences of famous people who have appeared to be relatively straight but who in later life have 'come out' and explained the effects difficult childhoods have had on them. Some peoples memories might be so deeply repressed that they may not even be conciously aware of them.

Fetishes, ummmmmmm. There are things which you can 'get off on' which can be a bit strange, but they don't have to have anything to do with sex, but they can!

I was surprised that a lightish spanking with a wooden ruler, did it for me. It leaves a feeling of 'ohhhhhhhhh, giggle' for me. Yet I don't really incorporate that sort of thing into my sex life, in fact its not something I need, just a weird little thing to enjoy.

I also enjoy injections, but prefer them to be in my arm, I believe the visual element helps. Its something I get off on, but its not sexual.

Do you think you can have sexual fetishes and non-sexual fetishes?

And now I've started the ball rolling with some of mine, how about some of yours!!

I have just realised why I can't do that study during the time I have to do a study. The study deadline is just before our first round of job interviews. As we all look pretty much the same, I think one of the questions will be "so what was your study on?" which wouldn't look good. Still maybe later.

Causality is rarely proved through case control studies I don't think, though Mickey will no doubt correct me. But it can raise eveidence of a possible link. I think the best way to prove causality in human subjects is with a cohort study, such as the one Doll and Doll did to prove that smoking causes lung cancer.

When it comes to causality, case control studies < retrospective cohort studies < prospective cohort studies < randomized controlled trials.

However, that same chain also represents cost -- case control studies are the cheapest, and RCTs are the most resource-intensive.

For something like this, an RCT wouldn't ever be feasible (much less ethical). Cohort studies would be possible, but would require such an incredibly large numbers that they would be pretty expensive to do, unless piggy-backed on to another study.

Usually for something like this, people start out with case series, which are used to build hypotheses. Then move on to case control studies, which look at possible correlations. If the case control study gives positive results, it's sometimes possible to use those results to get funding for a cohort study.

From what I've seen, however, studies regarding sexuality very rarely move past the case control study stage. In an era of limited funding, the people doling out the cash for studies tend to prefer cohort studies that examine the risks for heart disease or cancer or whatnot.

Part of my job here sometimes involves helping the medical students with their research projects for graduation. I also do some work with the postdoc fellows (i.e., doctors who have gone back for research training after finishing med school and residency). In both groups, people definitely try to devise their research projects in part around what will help them get a better job -- but I've noticed that medicals students seem a little bit more willing to try something bizarre. Here, at least, if you're going into straight clinical practice in an outpatient setting (like family medicine), what you did your research on isn't tremendously important. People are more likely to be impressed with unique rotations you did during your residency -- wilderness medicine, an international rotation, rural Alaska, etc.


Mikey

Of course, because this is just an interesting question,not one that is much to do with medicine. A quick medline search will reveal that there aren't many studies into this area, which is a good thing I think, because human sexuality isn't something that should be reguarded as a diagnoses.

I'd be interested to see if there was any RCT that could ethically be used to confirm causality of a disease rather than a possible cure.

As for the job hurt things do work a little differently here. In our final year we get to do a study which we can carry out anywhere in the world, so the two are sort of combined. The purpose of the study is to demonstrate our understanding of scientific princepals.

I'd never thought I'd want to go into the research side of medicine but do actually enjoy the science a lot more than I thought I would.

Our first jobs are really not that important, because they are the jobs that you have to do to get fully registered, we don't start to specailise until we have been working for at least a year. Whilst we're guarenteed one, there are some hospitials that I'd rather work in than others, due to shift systems, how nice the staff are etc. But if I don't get the job I want the world won't end, and it won't affect my career in anyway. As long as i get a good reference I should be able to get the specialist training that I want.

Please feel free to forget I contributed - oh you already did.

Injections Taffeta silk ballgowns, especially a bit backless and bit low cut

Kaz sorry I forgot to reply to your contribution, most of what me and Mickey are talking about probably makes no sense to anyone else.. I was doing about three different things as well as writing my reply


As for my odd kinks, i am the one person I think who hasn't found them yet! I've been asked to do tie someone up once, and enjoyed it because she was.. but that was more because I was enjoying giving pleasure..

Hyeup, I'm still a bit confused by exactly what qualifies as a fetish. I was under the impression that a fetishist had great difficulty relating sexually 'normally' and their fetish was the thing that did it for them instead.

If you count anything you can "get off on" it depends exactly what you mean by that. I get a good deal of pleasure out of a well played game of chess but I doubt anyone would consider it a fetish. I guess the scientist in me wants you to operationalise that phrase.

Interesting to see a discussion of research ethics - part of my job is to arrange courses in research ethics and other medical ethics types courses. We're going to be training the Orkney committee, funnily enough...

Sorry to let that interrupt a promising thread

Not a fetish, but the way a woman's voice sounds is (I think) disproportionatly important to me in determining attraction. It's not just accent (though 2/3 of my gfs have been non-Brits), but something else. And no, before anyone asks, I'm not attracted to women who sound like my mother

Otto

*psychology student tries to look inconspicuous*

I once was told its the appearance to a male

slim, blonde (brunette) will do the trick me thinks lol

and for the females its more than appearance they are after