h2g2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy: Earth Edition

I was wondering how my fellow researchers felt about allegations that a major UK supermarket which is supposed to have green and ethical policies is selling live turtles for human consumption in China?

Is it a bad thing or just cultural differences that make this seem repugnant?

Details of the allegation can be found over at http://www.tortoisetrust.org/activities/tesco.html I first became aware of this thanks to a post by friend of mine in her blog - the post can be found over at http://mirandawrites.wordpress.com/2006/05/06/hot-2/

Yummy!

So how many reward points do you get per turtle?

also see http://business.guardian.co.uk/story/0,,1761394,00.html

Brilliant - at least they haven't been flown half way around the world at ruinuous cost to the environment to suit out-of-season shoppers.

They have got one hell of a use by date on them.

Ethics and supermarkets.
Politicians and truth.

Pretty much exclusive words.

May I just ask what is your main objection?

Is it the fact that they are selling turtles or that they are selling them alive?

I suspect you probably dont eat veal but do drink milk.

I think the issues are that asian turtle species are endangered, and that the turtles are treated inhumanely.

Thanks kea - that's cleared that up - I have since done some reading and support the campaign to end the trade.

I also posted this over at F19585?thread=2929612

WanderingAlbatross I'm not sure what your comment had to do with the subject but I do not drink milk - can't stand the stuff and I do eat meat but I try and stick to organic meat which as I have yet to see any organic ethically sourced veal means no I don't eat veal.

I would he was getting at the point that some methods intensive milk productions put cows under undue stress.

I've no problem with the general proposition of selling turtles alive for human consumption.

And in general -again - I think that people in the UK spend too much time and energy getting upset on the behalf of animals that are very unlikely to to be aware that they exist. If you aren't aware that you exist you are even less likely that humans that are to terribly concerned that you are going to die. The only reason to be worried that an animal is under going stress is wether or not that will have an effect on the quality of the animal when consumed or other the production of something to consume.
What is a pig's happiness when compared to that of a man?
When all the people in the world are free from unecessary suffering I'll start spend time worrying about a turtle in China.

I believe it is *especially* wrong to kill very long-lived or highly intellegent animals.

Turtles can live to more than 200 years old! It is outright wicked to deny a creature that many years of life just so you can have a bloody bowl of soup!! Does that not even strike you as slightly absurd? really? Can you really think your 2 minute enjoyment of a bowl of soup is worth the cruelty and suffering these turtles suffer, and the denial of more than 100 years of life? If you do, then we obviously come from different planets- because to me there is just no reason why such a practise should be legal.

Same goes for whales and the like- very complex and intellegent creatures, that *do* understand death, and have been shown to 'mourne' when a member of their pod dies. This isn't airy fairy sentimentality. Intellegent animals feel pain, emotions and suffer as we do. It is quite simply wrong to kill those kind of animals for their meat, sport, or any other reason.

"It is outright wicked to deny a creature that many years of life just so you can have a bloody bowl of soup!!"
Who said they wanted blood in their soup?

"Does that not even strike you as slightly absurd?"
no.

"really?"
NO. I mean yes. I mean no, it isn't absurd.

" Can you really think your 2 minute enjoyment of a bowl of soup is worth the cruelty and suffering these turtles suffer"
Yes, even if there was cruelty and suffering it would be worth my 2 minute enjoyment. That's the benefit of being atop the food chain. But what evidence do you have for cruelty and suffering of these turtles? And what evidence do you have that the species being sold in the supermarkets are the sea turtles which live 200 years?

"and the denial of more than 100 years of life?"
yes

"If you do, then we obviously come from different planets-"
doubtful, the other planets of this solar system are uninhabitable, even if you could get here from there.

"Same goes for whales and the like- very complex and intellegent creatures, that *do* understand death, and have been shown to 'mourne' when a member of their pod dies. This isn't airy fairy sentimentality. Intellegent animals feel pain, emotions and suffer as we do."
Do you have any evidence that the species of turtle being sold falls into the above category?

How do you feel about turtle pornography/bestiality?

I don't know yet

Aw.. no matches.. shame

As for the cruelty info- well see the top of the thread, and metaphorically speaking, we obviously do come from different planets. (Thanks for the astronomy advice- a subject dear to my heart, and probably not a lot you can tell me about it, but thanks anyway)

http://articles.animalconcerns.org/ar-voices/archive/pain.html

Do animal feel pain?

I saw a fellow researcher's site -long ago - that had the most hilarious photoshop-ed pictures of "turtle porn". With the turtles replacing the grimmacing faces of the er... actors.
Certain patterns of animal behaviour are not proof of intelligence. Sometime I read an article that tried to effect that meercats have language skills and all we now need is the technology to translate what they are saying to each other.

There are many things happening China that concern to me. The consumption of turtles is not high amongst them.

Anyway, supermarket's power and their use of it in search of a profit margin does great indirect harm to world ecology in ways too numerous to mention and the standards of practice by the suppliers as they are squeezed.